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re: Why are we surprised that America is becoming more liberal?
Posted on 3/27/24 at 9:58 am to Northshore Aggie
Posted on 3/27/24 at 9:58 am to Northshore Aggie
quote:
he's implying that just because you and i agree that the "peak America formula", if you will, has been found and should be conserved
But I never said that. He knows I never said that, and now you do as well.
1
Posted on 3/27/24 at 9:58 am to Flats
quote:
When did you stop molesting children?
Again, that's asking for a comment with personal involvement, making it personal.
I asked for your opinion/comment, which has nothing to do with you personally.
Posted on 3/27/24 at 9:59 am to Revelator
Our current spectrum
Woke Leftist------Democrat-------Indpendant-------Republican-------MAGA Right
Woke Leftist------Democrat-------Indpendant-------Republican-------MAGA Right
This post was edited on 3/27/24 at 10:00 am
Posted on 3/27/24 at 10:00 am to Flats
quote:
But I never said that. He knows I never said that, and now you do as well.
you said this:
quote:
Also known as ignoring the very formula that led toquote:
a certain level of security and abundance
Posted on 3/27/24 at 10:00 am to Northshore Aggie
quote:
that's the rub when it comes to conservatism - getting people to agree on what should be conserved and what can still be made better.
Exactly.
And I'm not even making specific comments just that society ebbs back and forth but will always go towards liberalism over time as long as it stays developed.
Posted on 3/27/24 at 10:01 am to BCreed1
quote:
There it is again. Just can't help himself.
What's your beef?
You want Marxism to prevent that inequality?
Posted on 3/27/24 at 10:02 am to BCreed1
quote:quote:There it is again. Just can't help himself.
because freedom creates inequality,
but freedom DOES create inequality. what is your problem with this statement? i'm confused.
Posted on 3/27/24 at 10:04 am to BCreed1
quote:
There it is again. Just can't help himself.
its an observation. There's nothing wrong with inequality, unless you define it in woke terms.
Posted on 3/27/24 at 10:04 am to Northshore Aggie
quote:
you said this:
Yes, and I also said this:
quote:
That doesn't mean they believe it's perfect, but they're much more cautious about wholesale changes and rightfully so.
What part of that leads you to believe I think we've reached Peak America and can never change anything?
Posted on 3/27/24 at 10:08 am to Northshore Aggie
quote:
but freedom DOES create inequality. what is your problem with this statement? i'm confused.
I'm curious. I stole that from noted Communist William F Buckley
Posted on 3/27/24 at 10:10 am to Flats
i guess when you said that we've found the formula, it seemed implied that there was at some point in American history that we found what works for prosperity and abundance and shouldnt frick with the formula. if you dont think we've found the formula, and more changes are still needed, then why are you arguing on behalf of sticking with what works? i'm just not clear on what you are trying to say i guess.
Posted on 3/27/24 at 10:10 am to Flats
quote:
What part of that leads you to believe I think we've reached Peak America and can never change anything?
That's irrelevant to my question, and I already went through this point by point on page 3.
Posted on 3/27/24 at 10:11 am to Revelator
quote:
Stop when American men stopped feeling ashamed for getting handouts when they are capable of working.
Handouts are a perfect example. This isn't an American thing, it's a human nature thing and it's not going to change. Unfettered handouts, without responsibility and accountability, lead to bad things. They don't just lead to bad things in America, they lead to bad things everywhere at every point in history.
SFP, in taking the "well, everybody thinks their way is best" approach here is pretending that believing the above paragraph is just as arrogant as the person who thinks we can ignore history and human nature if we slap a new name on it and created a new bureaucracy to administer it. I disagree.
Posted on 3/27/24 at 10:12 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Most humans arent capable of self governing yet.
I think most humans are capable of self governing. The real problem is that the government we have in constantly playcateing to the ones who are not capable of self governing, or capable of much of anything else either.
Posted on 3/27/24 at 10:12 am to Northshore Aggie
quote:
i guess when you said that we've found the formula, it seemed implied that there was at some point in American history that we found what works for prosperity and abundance and shouldnt frick with the formula.
It doesnt hurt to be reluctant to changes in a system that had worked for a long time.
Doesnt mean you cant accept change, it just means you take it seriously.
Posted on 3/27/24 at 10:12 am to Northshore Aggie
quote:
if you dont think we've found the formula, and more changes are still needed, then why are you arguing on behalf of sticking with what works?
This kind of boils down the whole discussion.
It's the actualized version of the reject modernity and embrace tradition meme.
Posted on 3/27/24 at 10:14 am to Snipe
quote:
I think most humans are capable of self governing.
I believe in total anarchy, our population would become endangered.
"Do gooders" live behind the front lines, not on them. They would be destroyed.
Posted on 3/27/24 at 10:16 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
It doesnt hurt to be reluctant to changes in a system that had worked for a long time.
Doesnt mean you cant accept change, it just means you take it seriously.
I don't think anyone is arguing that we have to support change for change's sake.
Like I said, this is a constant back and forth with competing ideas of society, government, economics, etc. The "marketplace of ideas" so to speak. We try something new, evaluate it, and either accept it and build on it or reject it and look at why it failed. Societal trial and error.
We've been doing this since Sumer.
Posted on 3/27/24 at 10:17 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
I don't think anyone is arguing that we have to support change for change's sake.
I also dont think anyone is arguing that "we've arrived."
Posted on 3/27/24 at 10:17 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
It doesnt hurt to be reluctant to changes in a system that had worked for a long time.
Doesnt mean you cant accept change, it just means you take it seriously.
agree wholeheartedly.
it's like the old metaphor of the fence in the woods. the conservative leaves it there because someone built the damn thing for SOME reason, better find out why before we tear it down. the progressive tears it down without a single clue as to what the consequences might be because it just might be oppressing someone.
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