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re: When do we, and the West in general, start to accept the fact that Democracy failed?
Posted on 7/1/26 at 3:58 pm to Tom288
Posted on 7/1/26 at 3:58 pm to Tom288
“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure.” - Thomas Jefferson
1
Posted on 7/1/26 at 3:59 pm to Powerman
quote:
The issue isn't democracy itself. The issue is who you vote for is becoming less important. The government is owned by corporate and foreign interests and looks at serving the people of the United States as an afterthought.
I don't think one can say the issue is X & Y while excluding the possibility that the liberal governance is prone to facilitating X & Y.
Posted on 7/1/26 at 4:00 pm to AUJACK
Jefferson is my guy. If he woke up today he would have the Marine Corps pulling ops all across the country, probably starting in DC. 
This post was edited on 7/1/26 at 4:01 pm
Posted on 7/1/26 at 4:03 pm to DesScorp
quote:
At the time Id started delving into the debates on the proposed Constitution, and I was quite surprised just how much the Founding Fathers truly loathed classical democracy and just what lengths they went to prevent “the failure of Athens” in America’s new government. “Democrat” was an epithet for the unruly mob amongst many of them. When Jefferson was first inaugurated and some of his more rowdy supporters trashed the White House during festivities, Martha Washington cursed them as “Democrats”… in the Periclean sense, not the modern political party sense. The Founders had a deep distrust of the notion that just anyone should be able to direct a government.
Hell, Jefferson would have been happy if each generation got to throw their own revolution. Haha
Posted on 7/1/26 at 4:04 pm to Powerman
quote:
The issue isn't democracy itself. The issue is who you vote for is becoming less important. The government is owned by corporate and foreign interests and looks at serving the people of the United States as an afterthought.
I think this is close but it's too simplistic (not necessarily you, but when picked up by the average guy as a theme).
I think most minds go to some sort of occupy Wall Street "big oil/bank" type fat rich tycoon benefitting off us having no say in our lives and creating tension, and sure, there is some of that. I think parts of the right go to some sort of master puppeteer Soros thing devoted to some loosely communist end - and there is some truth to that too.
I think the reality is a bit less dramatic and a lot more problematic as a result. It's a combination of those globalist "haves" manipulating things to their advantage, sure, but it's in the form of a system built 80 years ago and largely operating with minimal direction. There are clear winners, but they're not even necessarily the people doing underhanded stuff to sustain it. See the thousands/millions of EU bureaucrat-class types that sustain the complete disconnect between what is happening in European policy and what actually benefits native Europeans, all with regular citizens questioning how X happened without anyone ever really voting for it.
That's my Ted talk synopsis on this, anyway.
Posted on 7/1/26 at 4:05 pm to Tom288
quote:
I know the UK isn't armed, but I don't know how, in nearly 70yrs because grooming gangs go back as far as literally the first people to come over, but how not one father or group of fathers didn't end up burning down a few Turkish Barbershops at the very least.
It probably did happen and their boomers make the kids read history books about how it was so bad and the rapists were heroes
Just like how our boomers parents tried to protect their neighborhoods and schools and businesses and our boomers wrote how bad they were in the history books and the real heroes were a woman beating philanderer and a gay male prostitute
Posted on 7/1/26 at 4:06 pm to ReauxlTide222
It hasnt failed in text. We have failed to keep up our end of the deal. The majority would rather stay fat and comfortable than raise arms and fight.
Supreme Court says you can be here illegally and have a baby and that baby is now a US citizen.
Supreme Court says mail in ballots can be accepted after voting day.
Supreme Court is about to weigh in on whether or not owning an “assault rifle” is a federal right.
Those issues alone should be enough to take up arms.
Supreme Court says you can be here illegally and have a baby and that baby is now a US citizen.
Supreme Court says mail in ballots can be accepted after voting day.
Supreme Court is about to weigh in on whether or not owning an “assault rifle” is a federal right.
Those issues alone should be enough to take up arms.
This post was edited on 7/1/26 at 4:09 pm
Posted on 7/1/26 at 4:08 pm to Tom288
quote:
Maybe Gen Z & following generations will represent the titanic pendulum swing back to the Right that's just waiting to happen.
Won't happen. Gen Z is full of weaklings. Besides, there's not enough of them anyway - they have been swamped by immigrants.
Posted on 7/1/26 at 4:12 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
I think the reality is a bit less dramatic and a lot more problematic as a result. It's a combination of those globalist "haves" manipulating things to their advantage, sure, but it's in the form of a system built 80 years ago and largely operating with minimal direction. There are clear winners, but they're not even necessarily the people doing underhanded stuff to sustain it. See the thousands/millions of EU bureaucrat-class types that sustain the complete disconnect between what is happening in European policy and what actually benefits native Europeans, all with regular citizens questioning how X happened without anyone ever really voting for it.
Even for the Elite class, say the top of the top, I always wonder how much of it is them being genuinely bought into their bullshite vs them just being complete nihilist psychos who don't care about the consequences of their actions because they'll never have to deal with them.
But even that is hard to support, when I try to think about their perspective. For instance, if I lived in a gated neighborhood and outside of my neighborhood was a cesspit of drug addicts, prostitutes, gangs, etc. Even if I can control things so that I never have to deal with any of those problems, so that I never even run into them...when I'm at home standing in my yard I wouldn't want to look at a 3rd world war zone across the street even if it was making me rich. That's what I don't get. Even if you're never affected, what makes these bozos want to live in a 3rd world country?
There's something deeper there.
Posted on 7/1/26 at 4:19 pm to Tom288
quote:
Even for the Elite class, say the top of the top, I always wonder how much of it is them being genuinely bought into their bullshite vs them just being complete nihilist psychos who don't care about the consequences of their actions because they'll never have to deal with them.
If you mean radically left political movements, a very small percentage, IMO. I think the reality is that at those levels, there are very few ways to separate yourself from other elites. Most are areligious, and thus morality isn't a faith component. So it comes from being vegan or being antiracist or giving a bunch of money to equity funds. It's the same reason people in those spaces buy transgressive art.
quote:
But even that is hard to support, when I try to think about their perspective. For instance, if I lived in a gated neighborhood and outside of my neighborhood was a cesspit of drug addicts, prostitutes, gangs, etc. Even if I can control things so that I never have to deal with any of those problems, so that I never even run into them...when I'm at home standing in my yard I wouldn't want to look at a 3rd world war zone across the street even if it was making me rich. That's what I don't get. Even if you're never affected, what makes these bozos want to live in a 3rd world country?
Yeah but if this person says that to their friends, it'll be heard as "why don't we clean up all the disgusting poor people" - which is a moral failing in their very limited moral/ethical framework. Their moral metric is leaning into an 8 year old transitioning or a homeless encampment being allowed to fester in front of businesses. What I take from it isn't that they're evil or whatever - they're just vapid in the extreme. There is no "there, there."
Posted on 7/1/26 at 4:21 pm to Tom288
Nice troll
7/10
Posted on 7/1/26 at 4:24 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
If you mean radically left political movements, a very small percentage, IMO. I think the reality is that at those levels, there are very few ways to separate yourself from other elites. Most are areligious,
After Epstein I tend to think they're all very religious. They're just interested in "gods" like Baal or Molech.
quote:
Their moral metric is leaning into an 8 year old transitioning or a homeless encampment being allowed to fester in front of businesses.
quote:
What I take from it isn't that they're evil
I'm sorry, what?
That's not vapid, that's definitionally evil. And they are, these people are evil. You don't even have to be religious yourself, but as long as you have a conscience then, ya, evil IS the word for these people.
Posted on 7/1/26 at 4:30 pm to Tom288
I think a lot of them are please, fast driver, see them evil in the sense that they have no problems substituting their technocratic plans for what I would term to be God‘s will.
And in their ethics, if a couple hundred thousand people have to die for the “greater good”, what’s the difference?
And in their ethics, if a couple hundred thousand people have to die for the “greater good”, what’s the difference?
Posted on 7/1/26 at 4:31 pm to Tom288
I wouldn’t go so far as to say that democracy has failed.
We have been warned about runaway democracy since Socrates and that is the problem. A limited amount of democracy can be a positive.
We are suffering from an excess of democracy. We are out of balance and I point to universal suffrage as the main contributor to this imbalance.
We have been warned about runaway democracy since Socrates and that is the problem. A limited amount of democracy can be a positive.
We are suffering from an excess of democracy. We are out of balance and I point to universal suffrage as the main contributor to this imbalance.
Posted on 7/1/26 at 4:32 pm to the808bass
quote:
I think a lot of them are please, fast driver, see them evil in the sense that they have no problems substituting their technocratic plans for what I would term to be God‘s will.
And in their ethics, if a couple hundred thousand people have to die for the “greater good”, what’s the difference?
Sure, I don't disagree. But they're pushing for policies that will inevitably lead to more and more encroachment on wherever these parasites call home by the parasites they're flooding the West with. You'd think one of them might stop and go, "Hey guys, you know I don't want my neighborhood to turn into Mumbai in the next 25 years."
Posted on 7/1/26 at 4:33 pm to Tom288
Well..... first off the US isn't a democracy. So, reframe your argument baw.
Posted on 7/1/26 at 4:33 pm to TrueTiger
quote:
We are out of balance and I point to universal suffrage as the main contributor to this imbalance.
In other words you don't like that your opinions might not be the dominant opinions anymore.
Posted on 7/1/26 at 4:34 pm to TrueTiger
quote:
I wouldn’t go so far as to say that democracy has failed.
We have been warned about runaway democracy since Socrates and that is the problem. A limited amount of democracy can be a positive.
We are suffering from an excess of democracy. We are out of balance and I point to universal suffrage as the main contributor to this imbalance.
I get where you're coming from, but when you look at the "voting" in California, Ilhan Omar being in the country, let alone in Govt, does that look like an excess of democracy or does that look like a rigged game masquerading as democracy?
Posted on 7/1/26 at 4:34 pm to Tom288
Yes I read what you posted, so did others and you flipped out because your ego was hurt over nothing. You’re a psychopath
This post was edited on 7/1/26 at 4:35 pm
Posted on 7/1/26 at 4:34 pm to lake chuck fan
the only way out of it is to breed. birth rates are at all time lows... fertility is getting worse and worse. its not looking good.
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