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re: What would you say to a Yazidi woman raped by ISIS who wanted an abortion?
Posted on 12/11/14 at 3:44 pm to OMLandshark
Posted on 12/11/14 at 3:44 pm to OMLandshark
Still not sure what's so self righteous about what I said, or how it's any different from what anyone else thinks about their own beliefs.
Not sure if you could tell, but my focus is on the standard that I hold to, not myself. It's a subtle difference, but let me try to show you:
The principles I follow are right, therefore I am right.
or
I am right, therefore the principles I follow are right.
It's all about emphasis. I don't think I'm "self righteous" because I don't don't think I'm righteous. I don't have any realized sense of superiority or greater worth or moral relevance in and of myself. My focus has always been on the standard that I hold to, not the fact that it's my standard. While it might come across as self righteousness, I assure you that I know I am not better than anyone else, even if I think the principles I adhere to are better principles than others. It is the principles that are better, in my opinion, not myself.
I certainly do not propose a theocracy, nor do I desire one. I do think that my beliefs are based on principles that are beneficial to humanity and can have a positive impact in various aspects of life, including the legal system, but they don't require some sort of messiah king to be ruler, nor do they require a codification of the 10 commandments.
I'm also not sure why you threw in the comment about blowing myself up to kill others. You could have just said "I'm sure if you had a different worldview, you would believe differently than you do now", which is essentially what you said but with fewer references to goats.
Not sure if you could tell, but my focus is on the standard that I hold to, not myself. It's a subtle difference, but let me try to show you:
The principles I follow are right, therefore I am right.
or
I am right, therefore the principles I follow are right.
It's all about emphasis. I don't think I'm "self righteous" because I don't don't think I'm righteous. I don't have any realized sense of superiority or greater worth or moral relevance in and of myself. My focus has always been on the standard that I hold to, not the fact that it's my standard. While it might come across as self righteousness, I assure you that I know I am not better than anyone else, even if I think the principles I adhere to are better principles than others. It is the principles that are better, in my opinion, not myself.
quote:Not sure who you think I am. I'm posting opinions on a public discussion forum. If there is a law proposed that I agree with, I will support it. If I don't agree with it, I won't support it. You do the same thing, I'm sure. The only difference is the reason why we support or not support a particular law.
Ok, please read back your quote about 10 times and really take it in on how self righteous you are. You are trying to take over society and turn it into a theocracy. You are no better than Islamic extremists. Sure you may not have ever taken a life, but I'd bet serious cash if you were born in a goat pin in Afghanistan, you'd gladly strap a suicide vest to your chest and bomb a local girl's school.
I certainly do not propose a theocracy, nor do I desire one. I do think that my beliefs are based on principles that are beneficial to humanity and can have a positive impact in various aspects of life, including the legal system, but they don't require some sort of messiah king to be ruler, nor do they require a codification of the 10 commandments.
I'm also not sure why you threw in the comment about blowing myself up to kill others. You could have just said "I'm sure if you had a different worldview, you would believe differently than you do now", which is essentially what you said but with fewer references to goats.
1
Posted on 12/11/14 at 3:53 pm to FooManChoo
I'll tell you why you're self righteous. With a girl who has been brutally rapped, I see a victim. I see someone who is greatly suffering and needs the help she can get, and doesn't need to be constantly reminded what happened to her by having a cancerous tumor growing in her for 9 months and certainly not raising the damn thing and see her rapist every other time she looks into her child's eyes. I see her as needing to solve this trauma as quickly and painlessly as possible, and that means aborting the kid.
You on the other hand look at this person who was the victim of a horrible crime as a murderer who is no better than a man who goes and kills a 5 year old at a pizza party. That's why you're a judgmental self righteous a-hole who completely doesn't understand reality.
You on the other hand look at this person who was the victim of a horrible crime as a murderer who is no better than a man who goes and kills a 5 year old at a pizza party. That's why you're a judgmental self righteous a-hole who completely doesn't understand reality.
This post was edited on 12/11/14 at 3:54 pm
Posted on 12/11/14 at 3:54 pm to mahdragonz
quote:I don't think morality is based solely on statistics, or else no one would ever do anything. Is it immoral to leave your house because you have a far greater likelihood of getting killed in a car crash while driving on the road compared to sitting on your coach? I don't think that's how it works.
So logically and statically a woman is more likely to die from childbirth than having an abortion.
If a woman wants an abortion, what is the logical reason for her to risk death if she doesn't want to?
If you believe murder is immoral and abortion is murder, then abortion is immoral. It's not immoral to die of natural causes, such is the case in childbirth, though, so it's not really an issue of dying, but how death occurs that impacts a moral decision.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 4:12 pm to OMLandshark
quote:I find it interesting that you think you have some sort of definitive basis for judging God, even though you have admitted that at least part of your standard is based on your ever-changing emotional state, or rather, how you feel about something. Interesting indeed.
No, there's nothing wrong with it, because it leaves one of two options: either God is evil or he is significantly morally flawed. That is to say, if you're right, then God is not worthy of being worshipped.
Not really here to get into a discussion about the nature of evil and whether or not God is evil, so I'll pass on this one for now. I'll just say that I don't believe that God is evil.
quote:You still don't have me pegged, though it seems you're trying very hard.
You say that like being an emotional being is a bad thing. Better than being an idiotic drone who only deals in a world of absolutes and not able to see anything in between.
I believe emotion is really the spice of life, but those who let emotion rule their decisions aren't very well grounded.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 4:13 pm to OMLandshark
quote:Wow, and you said I'm the delusional one
Let's do a poll here: does a woman deserve to be raped in order to conceive a child? You say yes, I say no. Anyone else think that women deserve to get raped in the name of The Lord?
Posted on 12/11/14 at 4:19 pm to OMLandshark
quote:Clearly you don't think the unborn child "counts" as a person, so obviously you have no problem killing it. And by extension, you think it's awful to give any sort of viability to the notion that the unborn child should have any "right" to life that supersedes the happiness of the victim mother. I understand you, and I don't agree with you.
I'll tell you why you're self righteous. With a girl who has been brutally rapped, I see a victim. I see someone who is greatly suffering and needs the help she can get, and doesn't need to be constantly reminded what happened to her by having a cancerous tumor growing in her for 9 months and certainly not raising the damn thing and see her rapist every other time she looks into her child's eyes. I see her as needing to solve this trauma as quickly and painlessly as possible, and that means aborting the kid.
The mother is certainly a victim, but as soon as the abortion takes place, there are now two victims instead of one.
quote:Not sure where you got this from. I think abortion is just as immoral as murdering a 5-year-old at a pizza party, but I certainly feel more sympathy for the rape victim than I do from the one who goes on some sort of cold-blooded spree. That isn't the point, though. The point is that I believe certain actions are immoral regardless of whether or not I understand or sympathize with those actions.
You on the other hand look at this person who was the victim of a horrible crime as a murderer who is no better than a man who goes and kills a 5 year old at a pizza party. That's why you're a judgmental self righteous a-hole who completely doesn't understand reality.
I sympathize with the father who beat the rapist of his daughter to death, but I also believe that such an act is still murder and immoral. I can emotionally connect with the man while at the same time say that he broke the law (I guess unless you're in Texas).
Posted on 12/11/14 at 4:20 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
I think abortion is just as immoral as murdering a 5-year-old at a pizza party
I think I'm done here. The rest you've posted is just nonsense.
This post was edited on 12/11/14 at 4:26 pm
Posted on 12/11/14 at 4:25 pm to OMLandshark
quote:Phew.. good. Thought this was going to go on forever.
I think I'm done here. The rest you've posted is just nonsense.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 4:34 pm to FooManChoo
It's so weird to me that the anti-abortion mindset is exactly what Isis is doing.
Sticking by a set of "moral" principles and forcing it upon others.
Sick. Sick.
Sticking by a set of "moral" principles and forcing it upon others.
Sick. Sick.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 4:44 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Yep. We agree there. Hip-Hop is too, IMO
How dare you NC!
Posted on 12/11/14 at 4:45 pm to mahdragonz
quote:Sticking to a set of moral principles isn't really the problem, though, is it? Even "forcing" moral principles on others isn't really a problem, either (in and of itself). It's particular principles that you disagree with.
It's so weird to me that the anti-abortion mindset is exactly what Isis is doing.
Sticking by a set of "moral" principles and forcing it upon others.
Sick. Sick.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 4:46 pm to FooManChoo
Nope. Deletes my post. I want nothing to do with this thread 
This post was edited on 12/11/14 at 4:50 pm
Posted on 12/11/14 at 5:27 pm to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
Nope. Deletes my post. I want nothing to do with this thread
Good, now get back to your research on finding the down syndrome gene.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 5:47 pm to mahdragonz
quote:
It's so weird to me that the anti-abortion mindset is exactly what Isis is doing.
Sticking by a set of "moral" principles and forcing it upon others.
Sick. Sick.
I know, right? I think it's so sick that we put thieves in jail. I mean like who are you to say I can't have that purse?
Posted on 12/11/14 at 6:39 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
OMLandshark
I may agree with you in this thread re: abortion and rape but I still I see a few flaws with your argument dealing in absolutes.
quote:
It does not deserve to see the light of day.
I actually agree with this in spirit but... This is in yours and my opinion entirely as there are women who actually think otherwise and consider abortion to be evil and will never do it even after a rape. They see it as a child through and through that has no opinion or feelings whatsoever and will not resort to a eugenics tactic just to remove some emotionless suffering.
Of course, not every woman is strong enough to have a line of thinking like this and be actually mentally strong enough after a rape to carry it to term. It's for that reason why rape victims should never ever be stopped from getting an abortion and whoever tries to do so should be shamed.
Just saying that your position of deserving isn't really rational when the right to life is pretty well established.
quote:
it's evil to let that child see the light of day.
Again, Opinion based here and rape victims who actually carry the baby to term disagree with you.
Are you of the opinion that rape victims who carry the baby to term are self torturing or mentally strong and courageous?
Posted on 12/11/14 at 6:43 pm to TN Bhoy
quote:
That God has brought something good out of a horrible situation.
Can't believe I missed this but you can go frick yourself you a-hole.
It's bullshite like this that makes people turn away from the light of god and doubt his existence or rather ignore him completely and turn into one of those douches on r/atheism.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 6:44 pm to Jim Rockford
don't repay evil by taking an innocent life. Take the child to term. I you can't take care of it, put it up for adoption. At least give the child a chance at a happy life.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 6:49 pm to kingbob
quote:
don't repay evil by taking an innocent life. Take the child to term. I you can't take care of it, put it up for adoption. At least give the child a chance at a happy life.
While I agree in spirit, it should be understood that she should not be judged for an abortion after a traumatic event like rape. Sensible people agree that rape is acceptable for abortion.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 6:56 pm to mahdragonz
quote:
What would you say to a Yazidi woman raped by ISIS who wanted an abortion?
I am so sorry for that horrible act. I'm here to help you and support you in whatever you need.
My thoughts and feelings regarding abortion would never be brought up.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 7:14 pm to Sentrius
quote:
While I agree in spirit, it should be understood that she should not be judged for an abortion after a traumatic event like rape. Sensible people agree that rape is acceptable for abortion.
Agree.
There is a cultural aspect here too. In 2006 (if i recall correctly) a yizidi woman and her sunni muslim husband were stoned to death when they visited her home village of sunnuni. Subsequently members of the muslims tribe detonated a very large car bomb in that same village. I dont see any way that this mixed kid, born out of a rape conducted by a muslim, has a reasonable shot at a decent life. The woman is going to have a hard enough time as it is.
ETA: I got the date wrong of course. I remember this story a little differently, but here is a general overview.
recap of the 2007 incident.
This post was edited on 12/11/14 at 7:19 pm
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