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Started By
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re: What responsibility do hospitalized, unvaxed people bear when they deny others healthcare?
Posted on 9/14/21 at 10:50 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 9/14/21 at 10:50 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
If you don't believe this is happening, then I'm not going to try to change your mind. You may be right, but the premise of this thread requires the assumption, so there is nothing to be gained.
If critical patients are being denied healthcare, that is the hospital's problem to solve. Patients show up, the hospital decides what to do with them. It's not the patient's responsibility to figure out, even if they bear blame for their condition.
The logical next question is, "Ok, then should hospitals be able to deny care to unvaccinated COVID patients?" The answer to that is not simple. If all the powers that be get together and decide that yes, they are going to deny care, I believe that it would be a punitive action, and that there are other ways hospitals and the healthcare system in general could go about solving the problem if they wanted to.
0
Posted on 9/14/21 at 10:51 am to hashtag
quote:
The "right" set the stage for the "left" to push their own personal choices via legislation. The problem is that you should disagree with both sides. But, you don't because you aren't a libertarian. You're a Marxist.
Where am I supporting any regulation or legislation?
Posted on 9/14/21 at 10:51 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
He just wants to bash those who engage in wrongthink.
Very typical, and he's totally blind to it.
I just find it odd that someone would want personal responsibility for taking a bed, defend for 16+ pages and say they aren’t calling for regulations against the unvaxxed. I really don’t understand what the hell they want.
Posted on 9/14/21 at 10:52 am to Flats
quote:
but all laws center around morality and values.
And I’d like to add: politics are the playing out of these morality debates. God help us
Posted on 9/14/21 at 10:52 am to the808bass
quote:
His need to create psychological and ideological distance between himself and the board
This board has gone crazy. That's why.
quote:
is personal and is likely driven by personal reasons.
Personal as in "I've always called out crazy people on this site"? Yes.
Posted on 9/14/21 at 10:52 am to fisherscatfan
quote:
I really don’t understand what the hell they want.
He’s like the rest of us. Out here on a Tuesday trynna get our dick sucked.
Posted on 9/14/21 at 10:53 am to fisherscatfan
quote:
and say they aren’t calling for regulations against the unvaxxed. I really don’t understand what the hell they want.
You don't think you can call someone irresponsible without a law?
Posted on 9/14/21 at 10:55 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
This board has gone crazy. That's why.
You mean you disagree with the general sentiments around vaccination as expressed by this board.
quote:
Personal as in "I've always called out crazy people on this site"? Yes.
Your argument in this thread is crazy. You are arguing every person should have access to any healthcare at any time including specialized equipment and doctors (which can be exceedingly rare) and that any delay in access to those resources is a moral evil which is compounded by the moral evil of choosing to not be vaccinated.
Feel free to point out what I got wrong. I’ll make it easy for you. I nailed it.
Posted on 9/14/21 at 10:55 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
This board has gone crazy.
Collectivists do collectivist things.
Of course we are "the board" to a collectivist.
You post on the board, I post on the board, leftists post on the board.
But its all one homogeneous group to the prog.
This post was edited on 9/14/21 at 10:57 am
Posted on 9/14/21 at 10:55 am to the808bass
Utopian and Marxist, where have we heard this before? He’s a lawyer so I’ll cut him some slack about what life was like in ERs before covid. His whole premise is misguided, mostly because it isn’t based in reality, Just a tiny vacuum he’s tried to create.
Posted on 9/14/21 at 10:56 am to Padme
quote:
politics are the playing out of these morality debates. God help us
Of course they are; they're inseparable. Policy (in any sort of representative government) reflects the values of that culture. Always has, always will.
Posted on 9/14/21 at 10:57 am to 3lsu3
quote:
His whole premise is misguided,
He's driven by emotion.
He's changed.
Posted on 9/14/21 at 10:57 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
and NPCs
and my point was proven early and often
According to you. You determined yourself the winner as you typed up your OP, so how serious should we take this verdict, counselor?
CDC stats on hospitalizations shows we are nowhere near the peak.
LINK
TMC data on ICU bed usage for covid and non-covid patients*
LINK
*repeated disclaimer that a "covid patient" doesn't necessarily mean they are there because of covid.
If your point is that the personal decision to not get this vaccine is immoral and causing massive unavailability of health resources to the moral vaxxed population, how is that reconciled with data showing that many many hospitals are not in fact overwhelmed at this time? Your argument simply becomes philosophical with no application to reality. Which again is fine if you just wanted to feel morally superior, but you getting mad about other health choices that require hospital resources becomes extremely valid, despite your declaration of victory over the sheep.
Posted on 9/14/21 at 10:58 am to Flats
quote:Correct. I agree with everything you are saying.
I'll just say this once so as not to derail this spectacular self-immolation of a thread, but all laws center around morality and values. If you want laws, you want certain values enforced because you think they're important enough to use the state to do so. Whatever label you put on them, Christian morality, secular morality, Gaia morality; it doesn't change the fact that you're forcing certain actions or inactions on others who don't necessarily share your views. That's how civilizations work.
Posted on 9/14/21 at 10:59 am to fisherscatfan
quote:he wants you convicted of wrong think on this website without having to move to the next logical step which is legislating your wrong think. Just give him some time, he'll start wanting it regulated very shortly.
I just find it odd that someone would want personal responsibility for taking a bed, defend for 16+ pages and say they aren’t calling for regulations against the unvaxxed. I really don’t understand what the hell they want.
Posted on 9/14/21 at 11:00 am to Flats
quote:
reflects the values of that culture.
What are our values that need to be legislated?
Posted on 9/14/21 at 11:01 am to hashtag
quote:
he wants you convicted of wrong think on this website
Absolutely.
He fell in the morality trap. The cult of corporate behavior.
Posted on 9/14/21 at 11:02 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:and the eventual follow-up, who gets to define those values?
What are our values that need to be legislated?
Posted on 9/14/21 at 11:03 am to RogerTheShrubber
What responsibility do all lawyers have for the relative rarity of neurosurgeons who will consult on ER care?
What responsibility do all lawyers have for driving up the cost of medicine?
How many people have died this year because they couldn’t afford the additional cost that our lawyers add to the medical system?
Perhaps this is a fun new way of thinking.
Let’s all try group shaming and blaming based on stupid ideas.
What responsibility do all lawyers have for driving up the cost of medicine?
How many people have died this year because they couldn’t afford the additional cost that our lawyers add to the medical system?
Perhaps this is a fun new way of thinking.
Let’s all try group shaming and blaming based on stupid ideas.
Posted on 9/14/21 at 11:03 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
You don't think you can call someone irresponsible without a law?
Sure. It just seems odd to me to say personal responsibility and then write all you want is to say someone is irresponsible. Usually when someone designates someone as personally responsible, they are implying they should be held accountable in some fashion.
If your accountability is to say they are irresponsible, that is your right. Just don’t be surprised everyone doesn’t feel the same.
Have a great day.
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