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re: The reason the right sucks at defending the 2A and other natural rights
Posted on 5/29/22 at 7:26 pm to KiwiHead
Posted on 5/29/22 at 7:26 pm to KiwiHead
quote:What happens when the government decides to say “no”. Your post is the equivalent of “if you aren’t doing anything wrong, why do you care if the government searches your house?”.
So I fill out a 4473 the guy at the gun place runs it. I come up clean and 2 minutes later I'm driving home with my purchase. My right to defend myself or to bear arms is not in the least bit infringed.
This post was edited on 5/29/22 at 7:47 pm
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Posted on 5/29/22 at 7:44 pm to burger bearcat
I remind them that the 2a was written by a bunch of young men who just literally defeated tyranny and never wanted the threat to reach the shores of their new country.
Posted on 5/29/22 at 8:28 pm to burger bearcat
Most people are ignorant of the founding fathers basis for the bill of rights which derive in large part to the Federalist papers. They look at the wording of the 2A and leave it at narrow interpretation.
Madison argued that the for people of the union to be truly free they needed to be able to defend themselves from a tyrant. He noted that the kingdoms of Europe did not trust their people to own guns and would never be truly free.
Madison argued that the for people of the union to be truly free they needed to be able to defend themselves from a tyrant. He noted that the kingdoms of Europe did not trust their people to own guns and would never be truly free.
Posted on 5/29/22 at 8:44 pm to burger bearcat
quote:
China doesn't have mass shootings by citizens, if that's the singular goal, it can be achieved that way. But it comes with the caveat that you are no longer a free and sovereign citizen, you have now become property of the state.
Exactly. Gun bans DO work, there's no question about it. Britain outlawed all their guns after that loon killed a bunch of kids in the mid 90's (it was their Uvalde). They haven't had a mass shooting since.
The way I see it we have two choices:
1) Allow a some kids to be killed every so often and keep the 2nd amendment.
2) Repeal the 2nd, turn in all our guns, do a full confiscation, make it a 10 year felony to possess an illegal gun, etc. Mass shootings will disappear (as they have in the UK/Australia). It might take a number of years to clear the guns off the streets, but it would happen eventually.
Those are the two choices. You cannot have the 2nd and eliminate mass shootings. It's impossible. No matter what restrictions you put in there, some loon will find a way to get a gun.
It's similar to our freedom to drive our own vehicles. We COULD outlaw private vehicles and be forced to take buses or trains or bicycles. Fatalities would go WAY down. But we, as a society, have decided it's worth the trade-off. We don't like to say it out loud, but it's basically what we all think. We're willing to put up with 35,000 traffic fatalities a year.
Posted on 5/29/22 at 8:51 pm to burger bearcat
Here, Here
Posted on 5/29/22 at 9:38 pm to Screaming Viking
And how are the people regulated?
Posted on 5/29/22 at 9:46 pm to Ace Midnight
That's my debate approach. Why do liberals want to deprive women the right to defend themselves against violent sexual crimes?
Posted on 5/30/22 at 6:14 am to burger bearcat
quote:
the right sucks at defending the 2A and other natural rights
...because today's gun nuts have amplified the Second Amendment to craft rights which in fact don't exist.
The framers of the Constitution were addressing a new nation whose citizens likely had no firearms more lethal than a musket or small incendiary devices. They would be horrified at the kind of weaponry now circulating through America today.
An AR-15 equipped with an auto-sear capable of enhancing its magazine capacity to 1,000 bullets/minute, fired pointblank into an elementary school or a crowd of concertgoers is indefensible and was never intended by the framers of the Constitution.
Posted on 5/30/22 at 6:24 am to burger bearcat
…. it’s because the average citizen doesn’t understand the US Constitution or the Rights it affords them.
^^^ this right here. ^^^
quote:
So back to the original point, the main purpose of the 2A is to be able to kill and overthrow tyrants, that is it. It also comes with benefits of self defense (which we all have a right to) as well as ability to harvest our own food through hunting (which we all have a right to). But the main purpose is to be a check on those who wish to enslave American Citizens and remove the Constitution. So they know in the back of their head, that if they go too far, it may not end well for them.
^^^ this right here. ^^^
Posted on 5/30/22 at 6:26 am to tarzana
You have no idea wtf you’re talking about. It was literally okay to have a field artillery piece in that day and age. That was the biggest, baddest weapon available. Thomas Jefferson would have made it okay to own an F-22 if you could afford it. The Constitution is about limiting the government, not the Citizenry.
Stick to making your protest signs, ma’am. And do us all a favor: find a chant other than “Hey, hey! Ho, ho! (Insert here) has got to go!” Your stinky, floppy-titty, hippie Grandma wore that out in the 60’s.
Stick to making your protest signs, ma’am. And do us all a favor: find a chant other than “Hey, hey! Ho, ho! (Insert here) has got to go!” Your stinky, floppy-titty, hippie Grandma wore that out in the 60’s.
Posted on 5/30/22 at 6:56 am to tarzana
quote:
The framers of the Constitution were addressing a new nation whose citizens likely had no firearms more lethal than a musket or small incendiary devices. They would be horrified at the kind of weaponry now circulating through America today.
You are obviously very poorly educated on this issue. The 2A really isn't about weapons or types of weapons, it is all about leverage and power. It is simply about allowing "the people" to have power over the state, to keep the country free.
If the federal government has access to big, scary, black guns... then so should the people.
Posted on 5/30/22 at 7:53 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
Another problem is that as soon as you label anything a “natural” right, you’ve assumed a logically incoherent and indefensible position built entirely on baseless presupposition.
not baseless
every living creature defends itself by nature's design
Posted on 5/30/22 at 8:30 am to Tesla
quote:
You have no idea wtf you're talking about
Rubbish. I know exactly the extent of the framers' words. They intended that the American people have the right to bear arms, but strictly in a defensive capacity.
The right wing in America today, which includes the majority of Republicans, have perverted the language of the second amendment to authorize possession of strictly offensive weaponry. There's no reason today to own an AR-15 fitted with bump stocks or a revolver with an auto-sear unless you intend to go offensive, and declare war on a schoolhouse, or an outdoor concert, or a movie theater, or a grocery store, etc. That's where we are today with the far-right gun lobby! They've given their tacit approval to such actions, and it's grotesque!
Posted on 5/30/22 at 8:39 am to tarzana
Your side has engaged in total lawlessness. Up to and including allowing BLM and ANTIFA to turn American cities into war zones.
There will be NO giving up of these weapons because your side has decided that violence is justified to achieve your political ends.
There will be NO giving up of these weapons because your side has decided that violence is justified to achieve your political ends.
Posted on 5/30/22 at 8:46 am to tarzana
quote:
or a revolver with an auto-sear
Just stop.
Posted on 5/30/22 at 8:48 am to burger bearcat
The RIGHT obviously prefers to bet on the political system without a pre-game fight.....and the LEFT will break laws and kill people to get their way.
Take your pick.
And explain why gun sales are blistering???? The answer lies with the soft crime policies set forth by the LEFT!!!
Americans are protected by the ABSOLUTE Second Amendment.
Take your pick.
And explain why gun sales are blistering???? The answer lies with the soft crime policies set forth by the LEFT!!!
Americans are protected by the ABSOLUTE Second Amendment.
This post was edited on 5/30/22 at 8:57 am
Posted on 5/30/22 at 8:59 am to tarzana
quote:
the majority of Republicans, have perverted the language of the second amendment to authorize possession of strictly offensive weaponry.
Anything can be deemed offensive when used to do harm. A #2 lead pencil can be used as an offensive weapon. Cars are now being used as offensive weapons to run over people. You think we should do away with cars? Just because someone buys these high-powered guns doesn't mean they will be used as offensive weapons. Should their privilege to own that gun for sport be denied because of a handful of pyschos out of 330 million people?
Posted on 5/30/22 at 10:29 am to jmarto1
quote:
And how are the people regulated?
They should not be. That is why there are commas in that sentence. To separate things.
Posted on 5/30/22 at 12:06 pm to Homesick Tiger
quote:
Cars are now being used as offensive weapons
How many cars have plowed into schoolhouses, churches or movie theaters? Not a one, because the attempt would likely kill the driver before anyone inside these structures.
Posted on 5/30/22 at 12:10 pm to tarzana
quote:
How many cars have plowed into schoolhouses, churches or movie theaters? Not a one, because the attempt would likely kill the driver before anyone inside these structures.
Troll confirmed. I thought you were just stupid, and I still firmly believe that, but nobody’s this dumb.
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