re: The Medium income Amercan Family now earns 1/2 the income needed to buy the avg home.

Middle class is considered 64k-160k. Should the low end be buying 300k starter homes? Certainly not.

But here in GA you can go to a state school and essentially get a free education if you get a 3.3 in HS.

Starting teacher salaries in Cobb County are 60k. If you and your gf both teach and are living together are you honestly telling me you can’t save for a decent house in 5-7 years and have a pretty ok life?

I feel you and I don't necessarily disagree.

I don't know what their $200K/yr income would equate to back in 1994 when I got out the Navy and got married. But I know I'd have been a HELL of a lot better off back then than they are today. In other words, they're starting out making way above average money and can still barely afford to buy a house.

And this was not the case at any point in my lifetime.

I feel like you're subtly trying to frame my comments into something I didn't say.
Most of this thread is about being "middle class" in America in 2025 vs being middle class at various times in the past and the ability to purchase a home.

I believe $200K/yr in 2025 should put you solidly in the middle class, if not upper middle class.

Is it unreasonable for two 26 yr olds to have two car notes? It's Not ideal, but it's not unreasonable either. That's what happens when you expand your family. Of course you can say they could choose to wait on having more kids, and to that I'd ask.... should a middle class family in America not be able to afford a decent home, two car notes and two kids? Seems to me this is the ideal middle class family, assuming the vehicles are not luxury vehicles.

Of course they didn't have to go to Disney a month ago for the second time in five years. But it seems to me this is precisely what an average middle class family does... they take a reasonable vacation once every couple of years, no?

Is it unreasonable for them to pay for my grandson to play soccer? Not traveling ball. Just basic 4yr old soccer. Is this a luxury the middle class should not be able to afford or should shy away from in order to still afford a decent home?

The list goes on. There are tons of things they could choose to do or not do to improve their finances. But none of the things they do are extravagant or above their means. I'm not claiming they're struggling- far from it. The point here is they are WAY better off than most couples their age and they can barely pull it off. The numbers and logistics of buying a house today are WAY different than it's historically been. This cannot be denied. Homes are priced 30% higher than they were just three or four years ago.

Even if they cut back on frivolous spending, it's still daunting to consider paying a $4K/month or more mortgage note. $200K is good money for sure. But I'm a little over $250K and I'm FAR from rich regardless of what anyone, or the govt, tries to tell you.

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Is it unreasonable for two 26 yr olds to have two car notes?

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Drive a hooptie. It will make it easier to put your kid into private school when the time comes. And when that time comes, you’re going to want to.

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I am thinking the inflation didn't go nuts until the 1974 oil embargo kicked in. 72 would have been toward the end of the Nixon admin and I don't think it was that bad.

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From Jan. 1969 to Jan. 1973, Nixon's first term, inflation averaged 4.59% per year.

From Jan. 1973 to Jan. 1977, Nixon's second term, inflation averaged 8.25% per year.

In the 5 years after Carter took office, inflation averaged 10%.

From 1967 to 1982, inflation averaged 7.27% per year - for 14 years.

From Jan. 2021 to Jan. 2025, inflation averaged 4.98% per year. Inflation has averaged 3.41% over the past 8 years.




You said you don't think inflation was "that bad" under Nixon, but how bad do you think it's been lately?

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If you want to put 10k into 401k, your take home pay is about 55k, not 65k Your numbers seem fair (for 2 people) with one glaring mistake: -400 insurance and gas for car Insurance and gas alone are going to be 400 or higher, is the car free That leaves $1200 a month, before the car payment, to start saving up for a downpayment (along with clothes, and any life shite that pops up). If you spend $500 on car (which is less than median), you have $700 bucks left $700 in discretionary income in a dual income household. Strong middle clas

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Also didn’t include electric, water, sewer, etc. Can’t afford childcare for a kid either.

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Anyone trying to buy their first house or first family sized home today, tomorrow, years from now given the national debt, is in a much shittier position

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Well, I guess that seals it. Your lot in American life is simply "a much shittier position." It's unavoidable. Nothing to be done! It's hopeless. The American dream suddenly died at the turn of the millennium, as soon as Gen-Y came of age. Gen-X and Gen-Z found their way, but everyone is screwing the poor Gen-Y "Can't Do's."

Wackatimesthree tried to explain to you what middle class used to mean. Instead of considering the message, which is accurate, you reject his experience and label him a "get off my lawn type."

In fact, you apparently haven't the foggiest clue as to what "middle class" "golden age" life would be like. If you could be teleported to that existence, you'd be shocked at the dearth of things you take for granted. That's what Wackatimesthree was/is trying to communicate.

Starbucks, Steakhouse Saturdays, and sundry exotic vacays or the equivalent were nowhere near the radar screen.

A $5 cup of coffee?
A $5 cup of coffee every morning?

Running a $30 bar tab 2-3x per wk? Eating out 1-2x per week? $200/m for cable TV? $100/m for a phone? Those are the kind of avoidable expenses many folks simply take for granted. A $5/d expense here, $60/wk there, and pretty soon you're running through $225/wk. That's $960/mo of after tax money.

Those type expenses or others which you take for granted would have been inconceivable to the groups you're claiming comparison to.

It's evident you'd prefer to assert that the things others are doing, and which they have done en masse, are impossible for you. That's fine. It's sad, but it's your prerogative. Others arriving in the American workspace after you will find ways to succeed which, to you, were/are inevident. That's the beauty of capitalistic society. Desire and determination finds a way.

Or don’t take the Disney trip and go to the beach instead which is half the price. But his kids needs to make those instagram memories. And then bitch about not being able to buy a 550k house at 26. Gimme a fricking break.

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Whose going tell him?

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Who's line is it, anyway?

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Then maybe you're not really middle class.

Now what?

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The middle class gets smaller by the day. See thats the problem is massive money printing. Excess money in an economy goes to the ones that have the best established money filters that go to them(stocks, real estate, etc). The middle class guy's salary isnt gonna go up to reflect the inflation of the money supply...but the money has to go somewhere. It goes to the wealthy and elite(driving up the prices of everything along the way). Those people use their wealth and power to make sure the government always keeps doing the things that benefit them. Its not real capitalism...its crony capitalism.