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re: The Medium income Amercan Family now earns 1/2 the income needed to buy the avg home.
Posted on 3/13/25 at 1:47 pm to GeauxBurrow312
Posted on 3/13/25 at 1:47 pm to GeauxBurrow312
quote:
The comments in this thread are insinuating that the middle class should live like paupers
What’s a middle class income?
A range is fine.
What should a middle class income “get” someone?
1
Posted on 3/13/25 at 1:47 pm to Eric Nies Grind Time
quote:So do it and get what you want.
Yes I am aware I can make more money if I get a second job.
Posted on 3/13/25 at 1:49 pm to HubbaBubba
quote:
In 2001 I was earning $165k annually.
That is 4X the median income in 2001
quote:
In 1975 I was earning about $3.25 an hour. LOL.
That's making over $25/hr today
Posted on 3/13/25 at 1:50 pm to the808bass
Middle class, in my view, is median income, Im not sure how it could be defined otherwise.
In this country a middle class household makes about 80k a year, thats pre-tax of about $65k to support 2 people.
As for "get"
- Drive a decent, non shithole car
- Not living in a shithole or have to commute 4 hours a day
- Not eating like a poor college student
- Being able to afford 2 kids
In this country a middle class household makes about 80k a year, thats pre-tax of about $65k to support 2 people.
As for "get"
- Drive a decent, non shithole car
- Not living in a shithole or have to commute 4 hours a day
- Not eating like a poor college student
- Being able to afford 2 kids
This post was edited on 3/13/25 at 1:53 pm
Posted on 3/13/25 at 1:51 pm to GeauxBurrow312
quote:Absolutely not. But they shouldn't have middle class income and expect to live with the upper class.
The comments in this thread are insinuating that the middle class should live like paupers
Posted on 3/13/25 at 1:52 pm to Boss
Oh and I think you asked earlier but I have an MS in Statistics and my wife has a Masters in Architecture.
Posted on 3/13/25 at 1:55 pm to Eric Nies Grind Time
quote:That is a fair comment, and apropos to many here. Factually, very few go through life w/o sacrifice or risk.
The only part that bothers me is that you think I have not made any sacrifices.
Results, pro or con, don't negate that. Nor do generations.
Nor does what's worked for me, necessarily mean it will work for you, and vice versa.
Given that though, I'm still disappointed at some of the consistent assumptions made in these woe-is-me / you-had-it-so-easy threads. Because along with sacrifices, which we've all made, as Americans we're also ALL blessed with greater opportunity than the vast majority of this planet's inhabitants.
As Americans we enjoy the most upwardly mobile society in history. It's a society in which 80% of our millionaires are 1st generation money. So, admittedly, when I see some of the "can't do" sentiment permeating a thread like this, it odes strike a negative chord.
This post was edited on 3/13/25 at 1:57 pm
Posted on 3/13/25 at 1:56 pm to RollTide4547
quote:
But they shouldn't have middle class income and expect to live with the upper class.
I don't know why you keep trying to make this point, when nobody is arguing they should.
Median income cannot afford median housing prices. How has that not sunk in yet?
This post was edited on 3/13/25 at 1:58 pm
Posted on 3/13/25 at 1:57 pm to RollTide4547
quote:
Absolutely not. But they shouldn't have middle class income and expect to live with the upper class.
It's amazing once again how you have failed to see the point.
Hint - the problem isnt middle class people trying to live in the upper class
It's that things like housing have gone up 50% in a few years while interest rates skyrocketed.
What was "middle class" housing just 3-4 years ago is now only affordable for people who make Top 20%...and THAT'S what's fk'd up.
Now this is only an issue for anyone buying the last few years (so not a ton of people), but if this keeps up, its going to continue to affect more and more people and thats when things will really start to show their head.
It's messed up when a house that was $300k 4 years ago suddenly becomes $450k and at more than double the interest rate. Obviously this is not normal.
Posted on 3/13/25 at 1:57 pm to GeauxBurrow312
quote:
As for "get" - Drive a decent, non shithole car - Not living in a shithole or have to commute 4 hours a day - Not eating like a poor college student - Being able to afford 2 kids
Those are all completely coincidentally defined in the negative.
Posted on 3/13/25 at 1:59 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
Maybe he thinks $1500 rent and $500 car payments are upper class 
The math does not add up to where people in the middle can afford homes today (we are not talking about 5 years ago). Those saying move to a rural area, you need to then lower the income - rural areas do not pay city wages, if the jobs exist at all
The math does not add up to where people in the middle can afford homes today (we are not talking about 5 years ago). Those saying move to a rural area, you need to then lower the income - rural areas do not pay city wages, if the jobs exist at all
Posted on 3/13/25 at 1:59 pm to thunderbird1100
quote:
It's messed up when a house that was $300k 4 years ago suddenly becomes $450k and at more than double the interest rate. Obviously this is not normal.
Probably shouldn’t have shut down the country and pumped $30T into the economy for a bad flu season.
Posted on 3/13/25 at 2:01 pm to the808bass
Ive said it before on this thread on what I think a middle class lifestyle looks like COL wise.
$500 car payment is a decent car
$1500 rent will get you a decent place thats not in the ghetto
Those saying people need to live cheaper than that, are implying to drive 20+ year old beaters and living in a dump, because those are the only cheaper alternatives
$500 car payment is a decent car
$1500 rent will get you a decent place thats not in the ghetto
Those saying people need to live cheaper than that, are implying to drive 20+ year old beaters and living in a dump, because those are the only cheaper alternatives
This post was edited on 3/13/25 at 2:02 pm
Posted on 3/13/25 at 2:05 pm to the808bass
quote:
Probably shouldn’t have shut down the country and pumped $30T into the economy for a bad flu season.
And that has nothing to do with what happened with homes outside of interest rates being affected by the inflationary stuff.
What happened with homes is after 2008 we decided for a long time to severely cut back on building homes and the homes we did decide to start building new were mostly labeled "luxury" and focused on things people didnt really need in terms of basics.
Couple that with decades long zoning restrictions which were dumb and suddenly after interest rates were near 0 (which just saying, current guy in office is pushing hard to get us back to) and demand got crazy prices went up as a result with rising interest rates and now we're in the absolute disaster of a market we have where there's homes that went up 50% in value in a few short years with more than doubled interest rates.
Housing supply is nowhere near where it needs to be and that continues to be a big issue.
Posted on 3/13/25 at 2:09 pm to Eric Nies Grind Time
quote:See, that is simply a ridiculous statement. Layout what you consider to be a middle-class lifestyle, because this sounds a lot like sentiment from another board where posters insisted $300-$400K/yr is the upper range of middle class.
we're talking about needing to be in the top 5% of earners just to afford what was once considered a middle-class lifestyle.
Posted on 3/13/25 at 2:09 pm to NC_Tigah
My initial comments weren't meant as a 'woe-is-me' complaint but rather an observation about a genuine economic shift. My wife and I both have advanced degrees and solid careers, yet the math of affording an 1800 sq foot home in our area is surprisingly challenging compared to previous generations.
I am genuinely grateful for my life and the opportunities we have as Americans. I live in a nice walkable neighborhood and both of my kids are healthy. It's possible to be both grateful and concerned about certain economic trends.
It's just difficult not to feel a tiny bit shorted when you feel like you did everything that you were supposed to do and still find that what was once considered a standard milestone is frustratingly out of reach.
What good is a message board if not to vent or whine a little though.
I am genuinely grateful for my life and the opportunities we have as Americans. I live in a nice walkable neighborhood and both of my kids are healthy. It's possible to be both grateful and concerned about certain economic trends.
It's just difficult not to feel a tiny bit shorted when you feel like you did everything that you were supposed to do and still find that what was once considered a standard milestone is frustratingly out of reach.
What good is a message board if not to vent or whine a little though.
Posted on 3/13/25 at 2:14 pm to NC_Tigah
300-400k might be upperclass on the bell curve, but lifestyle its decidedly upper middle class. 450k is 98 percentile, its a 200k leap between that and 99 percentile, and someone making 650k is still not living the stereotypical upper class life
Posted on 3/13/25 at 2:16 pm to NC_Tigah
I am only referring to metro Atlanta in that comment.
Posted on 3/13/25 at 2:17 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Unfortunately, it's a matter of fact, and you not wanting to deal with truth.
Numbers and facts are posted in this thread. They are what they are.
Sorry if that's hard to hear.
But it's an understand it now, or understand it later premise.
I understand that since 2020: -prices have gone from $40/Sq ft to $75/Sq ft for fixer uppers in my area.
-homes that have never been worth more than $150k are now priced at $250k despite a local population loss.
-interest rates are significantly higher than the 3% rates everyone was getting.
-2023 & 2024 home purchases are below Great Recession levels. I posted that one myself
There are lies, damn lies, and statistics. There are statistics ITT that disagree with you, have you tried considering them??
This post was edited on 3/13/25 at 2:18 pm
Posted on 3/13/25 at 2:21 pm to the808bass
quote:
Probably shouldn’t have shut down the country and pumped $30T into the economy for a bad flu season.
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