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Message
re: The Medium income Amercan Family now earns 1/2 the income needed to buy the avg home.
Posted on 3/13/25 at 2:24 pm to The Levee
Posted on 3/13/25 at 2:24 pm to The Levee
quote:
If we could just resist financing depreciating assets
This is a very small part of the problem that you're being told to look harder at by the perpetrators of the other parts.
Open your eyes.
0
Posted on 3/13/25 at 2:26 pm to Eric Nies Grind Time
quote:
My initial comments weren't meant as a 'woe-is-me' complaint but rather an observation about a genuine economic shift. My wife and I both have advanced degrees and solid careers, yet the math of affording an 1800 sq foot home in our area is surprisingly challenging compared to previous generations.
I am genuinely grateful for my life and the opportunities we have as Americans. I live in a nice walkable neighborhood and both of my kids are healthy. It's possible to be both grateful and concerned about certain economic trends.
It's just difficult not to feel a tiny bit shorted when you feel like you did everything that you were supposed to do and still find that what was once considered a standard milestone is frustratingly out of reach.
What good is a message board if not to vent or whine a little though.
Look I agree and I don't want to come off as harsh. When we moved to Atlanta, we had 1 kid and my wife was pregnant with another. We looked in midtown, buckhead, druid hills. Growing up in NOLA, those areas appealed to us. However, when we started looking at costs and child care costs, we increased our search range. That was 20 years ago.
We bought a 300k house in Marietta. Is it differnt from downtown? Absolutely. However, it's 20 mins to get downtown. We have Fox tickets, we are on the westside often, and we enjoy it down there. But we made a chocie to stretch our dollar a bit further.
We were 31 and 30 at the time. We have grinded for the past 17 years, and it's paid off. All I can say is keep grinding. You both have advanced degrees and your earning potential will only go up. Hopefully, once your kids are old enough, they can go to public school and that will free up a ton of cash flow for you guys. I symptahize and empathize with you. We were there, with no help. But just keep pushing.
Posted on 3/13/25 at 2:27 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:You can afford median houses in other locations. Has that sunk in yet?
Median income cannot afford median housing prices. How has that not sunk in yet?
Posted on 3/13/25 at 2:29 pm to thunderbird1100
quote:Then step up and start building homes.
Housing supply is nowhere near where it needs to be and that continues to be a big issue.
Posted on 3/13/25 at 2:34 pm to thunderbird1100
Here's a hint for you. If you can't afford to buy a home where you WANT to live and as CONVENIENT as you WANT it to be, you are going to have to rent a home there or buy a home somewhere else.
In 1984 jobs were scarce. I was making a whopping $4 an hour at McDonalds. I didn't whine and cry about a better job. I joined the military, got the GI bill, learned a useful trade, got out and finished a degree.... Military wasn't my dream, it was a means to an end.
In 1984 jobs were scarce. I was making a whopping $4 an hour at McDonalds. I didn't whine and cry about a better job. I joined the military, got the GI bill, learned a useful trade, got out and finished a degree.... Military wasn't my dream, it was a means to an end.
Posted on 3/13/25 at 2:34 pm to Boss
No worries. Thanks for the message. Genuinely. Wasn't meaning to come off as an a-hole if I did. I am just a taciturn person for the most part and can come off as a prick.
Posted on 3/13/25 at 2:35 pm to armsdealer
quote:I had managerial responsibilities, what can I say.
That's making over $25/hr today
quote:And your point is what? 26 years later, I was in a national sales position and I was working on a base salary of 28k. Same position, today, in the technical field of photonics earns between $375k - $450k at quota and really great sales reps can easily double that.
That is 4X the median income in 2001
Posted on 3/13/25 at 2:35 pm to RollTide4547
quote:
Then step up and start building homes.
Some of the comments in this thread are absolutely priceless.
"I pay x amt for health care a month"
- Wut, I pay nothing, 20+ years retired military, just join the military!
"Housing supply is the biggest issue right now"
- Well get out and build some homes!
Posted on 3/13/25 at 2:39 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:Median income cannot afford median housing prices, but median wealth+median income can.
Median income cannot afford median housing prices. How has that not sunk in yet?
That is what needs to sink in.
The presumption seems to be that a worker enters the workplace, and BAMN! they're pulling median income, and BAMN! they should be capable of hopping right into a median home.
In fact, one would logically expect a process, over time, of wealth aggregation and salary escalation toward attaining median level in both categories. It's at that point, median housing becomes affordable. We were 8-9 yrs into marriage before we could afford a median-level home.
Posted on 3/13/25 at 2:39 pm to RollTide4547
quote:
Here's a hint for you. If you can't afford to buy a home where you WANT to live and as CONVENIENT as you WANT it to be, you are going to have to rent a home there or buy a home somewhere else.
Here's a hint for you, this is not about me or a specific set of people.
Incredibly unaffordable housing costs affects almost everyone over time that is buying homes, and the point is, the longer it stays unaffordable the worse things get and for the overall economy. Me building homes is not going to solve this issue (Still LOLing at that one), it's also okay to point out very obvious issues troubling US society at the moment. Not everything gets solved by joining the military and moving out to middle of nowhere. The hope is this corrects itself faster than the problem persists.
quote:
In 1984 jobs were scarce. I was making a whopping $4 an hour at McDonalds. I didn't whine and cry about a better job. I joined the military, got the GI bill, learned a useful trade, got out and finished a degree.... Military wasn't my dream, it was a means to an end.
The funny part about this is literally the next year as I explained before my dad built a customer home with nice finishes in a nice NOLA suburb on a barely above middle class income and his wife wasnt working.
This is an absolute beyond pipe dream now, and thats kind of the entire point. No I'm not saying people who make $90k/yr should be able to build custom nice homes in desirable areas, but the vast majority of people shouldnt need to be told to move to the middle of nowhere to afford any type of housing as thats just beyond dumb. Thats not a solution to the problem, the problem still persists.
Posted on 3/13/25 at 2:40 pm to thunderbird1100
quote:The priceless ones for me is all the complaining.
Some of the comments in this thread are absolutely priceless.
"We can't have everything we want NOW by doing the same we WANT to do and have always done". You're like the 500 lb guy complaining that he can't lose weight eating 9000 calories a day...
Posted on 3/13/25 at 2:40 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Median income cannot afford median housing prices, but median wealth+median income can.
That is what needs to sink in.
So your argument is you need to work for 20 years to buy your first house? Not a great one, there
for the record I dont think the expectation is for people to get their first career job and get a house in the same year. Most people go through the natural progression of apartment/renting for a while, maybe buy a condo or very small place if by themselves after some years of working, then once oyu want to settle down with someone else buy a first real home...then as your family expands you get something a little bigger/nicer so fit suit.
Nobody is making the argument a 22-23 year old first year in the career job workforce should be buying a median house. People are simple saying median/middle class housing shouldnt only be affordable for the top 15-20% of income earners, and that's what's jacked up right now (And the last couple years)
This post was edited on 3/13/25 at 2:45 pm
Posted on 3/13/25 at 2:42 pm to RollTide4547
quote:
The priceless ones for me is all the complaining.
People pointing out obvious issues with housing is not "complaining" its called reality for anyone buying a house right now. I dont care if you make $50k or $200k a year, your home buying power is SIGNIFICANTLY way worse than it was just 4 short years ago, and that's the problem.
quote:
"We can't have everything we want NOW by doing the same we WANT to do and have always done".
Again, the entire point escapes some of you.
Posted on 3/13/25 at 2:44 pm to thunderbird1100
Here's a hint for you. This applies to everyone, not just you or me. If it is "incredibly unaffordable" MOVE. If you built 3 homes, that would ease the housing crisis you speak of. More houses on the market. Yet you only want to use your words.
quote:Sounds like he is man of action. What happened to you?
my dad built a customer home with nice finishes in a nice NOLA suburb on a barely above middle class income and his wife wasnt working.
quote:Whine whine whine, Complain. Poor poor pitiful me. Like it or not, that's where you are. Adapt and overcome.
This is an absolute beyond pipe dream now, and thats kind of the entire point.
Posted on 3/13/25 at 2:45 pm to Eric Nies Grind Time
quote:Good. We share that perspective.
I am only referring to metro Atlanta in that comment.
Posted on 3/13/25 at 2:45 pm to thunderbird1100
quote:You can bitch whine and cry till the cows come home. Won't change anything. Adapt and overcome.
People pointing out obvious issues with housing is not "complaining" its called reality for anyone buying a house right now. I dont care if you make $50k or $200k a year, your home buying power is SIGNIFICANTLY way worse than it was just 4 short years ago, and that's the problem.
What is your solution then?
Posted on 3/13/25 at 2:54 pm to BarberitosDawg
quote:
This generation is going to have to learn to suffer and save. Not a new concept. My first home after marriage in 1979 was a fixed 30 year at 13.4% interest 30% down. We got through it small flat roof to save money on construction and small bedrooms on large lot compared to today. Suffering in an honest debt builds a family.
Boomers lived through times of plenty and think they have it rough. Dudes can even find a woman to marry nowadays.
Dudes now will graduate college with engineering degrees and work 5 side gig jobs for 2-3 years while applying to 1000 jobs all offering $50k salaries. Rent $1200/mth Food minimum $600/mth Utilities $200/mth car payment $200/mth gas $400/mth....then taxes
Congrats in 13 years youll have saved up enough for a downpayment on a below average starter home
Posted on 3/13/25 at 2:56 pm to thunderbird1100
quote:Lot's of words filled with anecdotes packed in plenty of vagueness. It's pretty difficult to address posts like this without loads of assumptions.
The funny part about this is literally the next year as I explained before my dad built a customer home with nice finishes in a nice NOLA suburb on a barely above middle class income and his wife wasnt working.
This is an absolute beyond pipe dream now, and thats kind of the entire point.
I grew up middle class. Our old home in a Slidell neighborhood is in the $200-$220K range now.
Posted on 3/13/25 at 2:58 pm to RollTide4547
quote:
Here's a hint for you. This applies to everyone, not just you or me. If it is "incredibly unaffordable" MOVE. If you built 3 homes, that would ease the housing crisis you speak of. More houses on the market. Yet you only want to use your words.
Again, missing the point entirely.
The people who cant afford to move/live where they want to are staying PUT. This is why home sales have PLUMMETED the last few years, because so many people CANT afford to move to another place. Many cant literally re-buy their own place they live in now and be able to afford it. This is why we're sitting around 4 million existing house sales now vs. 50% higher than that back in 2020-2021. Invariably some people have to move for whatever reason, but if you can stay put many are choosing that now because moving to something even very similar or slightly bigger could mean doubling their current mortgage which obviously a lot of people cant take on.
This is a problem that will continue to persist in its state whether or not people to choose to bumfu*k nowhere or not. The idea hopefully is this is a SHORT TERM problem, because if it becomes a LONG term issue, a lot of things are frankly fk'd if practically nobody can afford housing for a decade+. Obviously thats not an ideal scenario.
quote:
Whine whine whine, Complain. Poor poor pitiful me. Like it or not, that's where you are. Adapt and overcome.
Again, pointing out obvious things and things that DO NOT affect me at all making comments like this look hilariously stupid. Again, our household income is in the top 10% of all earners, our mortgage is like $2k/mo, it's nothing for us.
I'm sorry you cant accept the current situation for most because you maybe dont have to with live it and dont care about anyone else, but many people have to live it and are making major decisions based upon it which could ultimately crash the economy if this is something that persists for a long time.
No more housing afford for middle class americans unless you move to middle of nowhere or the ghetto? Good luck with that if it persists with a decade. See where that takes the economy
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