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re: The American public has lost its will to fight and win wars
Posted on 8/13/26 at 2:02 pm to theballguy
Posted on 8/13/26 at 2:02 pm to theballguy
quote:
Across the board, what OP is saying 100% the truth.
He said that since Vietnam we have lost the stomach for war
Bush had MASSIVE bipartisan support for the war on terror (at first), which was obviously way after Vietnam.
OP was wrong from his very first sentence.
1
Posted on 8/13/26 at 2:03 pm to Boston911
quote:
Sure can, Iran has been the cause and financier of terrorist all over the globe
I sure do remember when they started, trained and funded al qaeda. I also remember when they started and funded ISIS.
Same for the Contras and the KLA.
I also remember when Italian terrorists, who were funded and equipped by Iran carried out the Piazza Fontana Bombing.
Those Iranian bastards
Posted on 8/13/26 at 2:07 pm to UtahCajun
I don’t actually have any issues with Empire building abroad as long as we’re honest about it, we communicate our goals and intentions, those goals and intentions would benefit the American people more than war would damage them, and the public supported taking such an action.
The government does not seek public input because they don’t even know their war aims. They don’t know if they benefit anyone in the United States. They cannot articulate what they want, what we stand to gain, what we stand to lose, etc because they either don’t know or know that they can’t defend their ideas from criticism.
At this point, I would be promoting autarky so that we can fully separate from the middle east economically and politically. Let them bomb each other with their axial aged conflicts without our money. Heck, I wouldn’t shed a tear if we nuked every city between the Levant to the hindu kush just so I wouldn’t have to hear about it anymore.
The government does not seek public input because they don’t even know their war aims. They don’t know if they benefit anyone in the United States. They cannot articulate what they want, what we stand to gain, what we stand to lose, etc because they either don’t know or know that they can’t defend their ideas from criticism.
At this point, I would be promoting autarky so that we can fully separate from the middle east economically and politically. Let them bomb each other with their axial aged conflicts without our money. Heck, I wouldn’t shed a tear if we nuked every city between the Levant to the hindu kush just so I wouldn’t have to hear about it anymore.
Posted on 8/13/26 at 2:08 pm to Boston911
quote:
Iran has been the cause and financier of terrorist all over the globe and can be tied to the deaths of nearly 1000 Americans in the last 47 years
Now do Saudi Arabia. And you only have to go back 25 years.
Posted on 8/13/26 at 2:08 pm to UtahCajun
quote:
How old were you in 1953?
i was born in 1961 which made me a freshman in college when iran seized our embassy, did you vote for carter, if you were born in 53 you must have, thanks for getting rid of the shah worst foreign policy mistake in my lifetime.
Posted on 8/13/26 at 2:10 pm to KTrain915
If Iran had access to nukes they would use them on USA. Iran has no right to control strait of Hormuz.
Posted on 8/13/26 at 2:10 pm to udtiger
I’m as pro-military as it gets. However I see why lots of people feel the way they do.
Everything is political. UN involved in everything. Military engagement is limited some global set of rules of war. We spend a fortune blowing shite up then turn around and spend a fortune rebuilding shite.
Iran is a complete waste of time if we don’t force a regime change. Don’t care how good of a deal Trump does.. doubtful any future president beyond the next election will enforce the deal. Regime change is the potentially long term protection from Iran having nuclear weapons in the next 10 years.
Unless of course Israel nukes them first.
Everything is political. UN involved in everything. Military engagement is limited some global set of rules of war. We spend a fortune blowing shite up then turn around and spend a fortune rebuilding shite.
Iran is a complete waste of time if we don’t force a regime change. Don’t care how good of a deal Trump does.. doubtful any future president beyond the next election will enforce the deal. Regime change is the potentially long term protection from Iran having nuclear weapons in the next 10 years.
Unless of course Israel nukes them first.
Posted on 8/13/26 at 2:11 pm to udtiger
Spending $40 billion only to end up begging the enemy for a deal will cause Americans to not support it.
Most would like to see $40 billion spent to help our lives at home.
Most would like to see $40 billion spent to help our lives at home.
Posted on 8/13/26 at 2:15 pm to KTrain915
quote:
Can you give me a good reason for us to be fighting this war?
THIS! This conflict is NO just cause, it's someone's personal political folly. Sadly at the end of the day, it does not impact them.
I had NO issues with the deliberately planned, strategic air strikes in 2025 to negate Iran's ability to possess a nuke. WE were led to believe those highly successful strikes set them back 10 yrs... We were lied to, and we continue to hear less than accurate and complete information about this conflict which includes strategic & operational objectives, casualties, and diplomatic solutions.
All we have accomplished to date is validated any Iranian plans to shut down the SOH now, and anytime in the future, with far reaching global economic impacts. We have provided them a means and resolve to weaponize the SOH to their advantage.
Posted on 8/13/26 at 2:18 pm to paulb52
quote:
If Iran had access to nukes they would use them on USA. Iran has no right to control strait of Hormuz.
Rights don’t exist internationally. What a country has a “right” to is what they can control, possess, and/or defend. Iran is capable of severely limiting traffic out of the straits by threatening ships with drones and artillery.
The solution is obvious: people who need to import or export oil through the straits need to either remove Iran’s ability to do this or pay Iran to make them stop. We don’t need their oil, so unless the countries who do pay us to do it, we have no incentive to waste our resources solving their problems, especially when they are not only unwilling to solve them but oppose us solving them. If they want Iran to cut off their oil, let Iran cut them off.
Posted on 8/13/26 at 2:18 pm to dgnx6
quote:
The Iranian constitution tasks the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) with an ideological mission of jihad to expand God’s sovereignty worldwide.
The Iranian government is just a bunch of corrupt power hungry politicians the same as you find all over the world.
They are about as religiously pure as Jimmy Swaggart.
They want money, power and influence.
They aren't psycho or crazy or fanatical. They just want to stay in power. That's really all this boils down to.
Imagine wanting to send American kids to die fighting corrupt politicians. We have enough to fight here.
Posted on 8/13/26 at 2:27 pm to Tiger985
They have to go unless you want what’s happening to NY, Michigan, Minnesota and now Texas to continue.
Posted on 8/13/26 at 2:33 pm to udtiger
quote:
Ever since Vietnam
Yes, IMO ever since Viet Nam Americans have been distrustful of their government. The damage done by Lyndon Johnson's decision to commit massive numbers of draftees to this war forever crippled our ability to perceive a real threat to our security. A lack of perception our enemies and the mafia democrats exploit even to this day.
And the names of those 58,200 Viet Nam dead listed on that Viet Nam Veterans War Memorial Wall in Washington, D.C. is a reminder of the price we paid for that terrible war.
It certainly was a concern for President (and General) Dwight D. Eisenhower. In his farewell address to the country, he warned about the danger of an out-of-control "military-industrial complex".
I hate war - but my fear of an Islamic regime in Iran armed with a nuclear bomb scares me more than I hate war.
Posted on 8/13/26 at 2:34 pm to udtiger
quote:
The American public has lost its will to fight and win wars
I thought you meant conservative Americans. Because we damn sure have rolled over and allowed the pinkos to run roughshod.
Posted on 8/13/26 at 2:35 pm to dickkellog
quote:
i was born in 1961 which made me a freshman in college when iran seized our embassy, did you vote for carter, if you were born in 53 you must have, thanks for getting rid of the shah worst foreign policy mistake in my lifetime
----> the point
Your head
Man, you are dense. You think Iran started shite with us, yet refuse to admit we started it with them when we used terror tactics to overthrow their rightfully elected government and installed a puppet in 1953. All because BP wanted their oil.
So in recap, this "war" has been going on since we attacked them in 1953.
Posted on 8/13/26 at 2:36 pm to KTrain915
quote:
Can you give me a good reason for us to be fighting this war?
Yes.
Posted on 8/13/26 at 2:43 pm to kingbob
Upvote for honesty.
I however do not like the result of empire. We are making the same mistakes as Rome made (another empire that spread to protect itself).
Peoples we displaced coming here, not assimilating, losing our western European culture, inflationary MIC spending, the inevitable police state and corruption that we do not mind because our circuses have plenty of bread.
The USA is perhaps the only country that could ever isolate itself successfully (I am not in agreement with that either). We have what is effectively the world's largest insurgency right here at home and not one single country out there is even close to having the capability to move mass troops to our homeland even if they use Canada or Mexico (unless we let them via unchecked illegal immigration). Hell, all of NATO could proclaim war against us and unless they use nukes, our armed civilians still have a better chance at winning then they do.
Empire building coulda stop at the 50 states. 51 if you really wanna pull PR into it.
I however do not like the result of empire. We are making the same mistakes as Rome made (another empire that spread to protect itself).
Peoples we displaced coming here, not assimilating, losing our western European culture, inflationary MIC spending, the inevitable police state and corruption that we do not mind because our circuses have plenty of bread.
The USA is perhaps the only country that could ever isolate itself successfully (I am not in agreement with that either). We have what is effectively the world's largest insurgency right here at home and not one single country out there is even close to having the capability to move mass troops to our homeland even if they use Canada or Mexico (unless we let them via unchecked illegal immigration). Hell, all of NATO could proclaim war against us and unless they use nukes, our armed civilians still have a better chance at winning then they do.
Empire building coulda stop at the 50 states. 51 if you really wanna pull PR into it.
Posted on 8/13/26 at 2:44 pm to Tiger985
quote:
They aren't psycho or crazy or fanatical. They just want to stay in power.
Those two things are not mutually exclusive. Iran's leadership is a mixed bag of hardline religious zealots and some more moderate folks from two different generations. The older hardliners were young men, many them jsut teenagers during the Iran/Iraq war that strapped bombs to their friends chest and watched them rush into minefields and fortified Iraqi positions. They are every bit as dedicated to their cause now as they were then. The more moderate leaders are always walking the tight rope and are often targets of both their own hardline leadership and outside forces that have an interest in keeping the hardliners in power.
Posted on 8/13/26 at 2:48 pm to dickkellog
quote:27 and I have been waiting 47 years to wipe them out. My problem right now is it's shocking they didn't really have an exit strategy.
how old were you in 1979?
Posted on 8/13/26 at 2:54 pm to Diamondawg
Should’ve laid siege to the place day 1 of Trump and let it tear itself apart from the inside.
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