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Supreme Court seems skeptical of race-conscious college admissions

Posted on 10/31/22 at 3:31 pm
Posted by jatilen
Member since May 2020
13608 posts
Posted on 10/31/22 at 3:31 pm
quote:

The conservative-majority Supreme Court on Monday appeared skeptical of affirmative action in higher education during arguments over race-conscious admissions policies at two prestigious universities.

Over nearly five hours of oral argument, the justices posed sharp questions over admissions programs at the University of North Carolina (UNC) and Harvard University that consider the race of applicants — as one of many criteria — in order to achieve student body diversity.

The court’s majority appeared receptive to arguments by the conservative challengers, Students for Fair Admissions (SFFA), who argued that the schools had impermissibly weighed race in admissions decisions.

“What is your response to the simple argument that college admissions are a zero-sum game?” Justice Samuel Alito asked an attorney for a group of students backing race-conscious admissions. “And if you give a plus to a person who … falls within the category of underrepresented minority but not to somebody else, you’re disadvantaging the latter student?”

quote:

A key question heading into Monday’s arguments was how the affirmative action challenge would land with former President Trump’s three nominees — Justices Neil Gorsuch, Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett — none of whom have ruled on the issue as appellate judges. Those justices on Monday appeared to lean in favor of the conservative challengers, though it wasn’t clear how broadly the court’s newest members might be willing to rule.

The court’s three most senior conservatives — Chief Justice John Roberts and Justices Clarence Thomas and Alito — each of whom had opposed racial preferences in prior cases, seemed similarly wary of the colleges’ arguments.

The court’s three liberals, for their part, appeared to lean in favor of the schools’ use of race-conscious admissions. Among them was newest Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson, the nation’s first female African American justice, who participated in the UNC case but recused from the Harvard dispute due to her recent role as a member of the school’s board of overseers.


LINK
Posted by CAD703X
Liberty Island
Member since Jul 2008
94907 posts
Posted on 10/31/22 at 3:32 pm to
quote:

conservative-majority Supreme Court
Posted by Fun Bunch
New Orleans
Member since May 2008
132635 posts
Posted on 10/31/22 at 3:33 pm to
quote:

The court’s three most senior conservatives — Chief Justice John Roberts


Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
483115 posts
Posted on 10/31/22 at 3:33 pm to
I would really love the justices supporting these policies to explain how excluding Asian students is benefiting minorities, generally.
Posted by Indefatigable
Member since Jan 2019
38625 posts
Posted on 10/31/22 at 3:33 pm to
Race should not be a factor in anything, at all. Neither should any other innate biological information.

Meritocracy. Period. For everything.
Posted by LordSaintly
Member since Dec 2005
43342 posts
Posted on 10/31/22 at 3:34 pm to
quote:

The court’s three most senior conservatives — Chief Justice John Roberts


Oof
Posted by tommy2tone1999
St. George, LA
Member since Sep 2008
7863 posts
Posted on 10/31/22 at 3:36 pm to
quote:

The court’s three liberals, for their part, appeared to lean in favor of the schools’ use of race-conscious admissions. Among them was newest Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson


* Affirmative Action Appointee to the Supreme Court
This post was edited on 10/31/22 at 3:37 pm
Posted by ELVIS U
Member since Feb 2007
12067 posts
Posted on 10/31/22 at 3:48 pm to
It is no longer the United States Supreme Court and is now and shall henceforth be called the conservative majority Supreme Court, until the majority is liberal again, and only then can they once again be called the United States Supreme Court.
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
44345 posts
Posted on 10/31/22 at 4:03 pm to
The case does present an interesting question.

If an elite institution has an admissions process that generates a composite score (based upon 10 entirely-objective criteria) and a minimum score of (say) 80 for admission, what is the institution to do if it has 1000 available slots but 1700 applicants who scored above 80?

Presumably, that score of 80 is considered adequate for success at the institution. Must the institution change its standards and just take the top 1000 scores?

Can the institution consider extracurricular activites in addition to composite score? State-of-residence? Family income? Legacy status? Choice for major field of study? Admission essay (why else force kids to write them?)?

If the institution can consider those variables, why can it not also consider race/ethnicity as one of many factors?
Posted by Indefatigable
Member since Jan 2019
38625 posts
Posted on 10/31/22 at 4:07 pm to
quote:

If an elite institution has an admissions process that generates a composite score (based upon 10 entirely-objective criteria) and a minimum score of (say) 80 for admission, what is the institution to do if it has 1000 available slots but 1700 applicants who scored above 80?


Pragmatically? Ditch that dumb as hell scoring criteria.

Legally? I have no idea.

quote:

If the institution can consider those variables, why can it not also consider race/ethnicity as one of many factors?


Because any innate biological information (sans ADA related things) are infinitely less relevant than the factors you listed. Skin color is not important in any context.
quote:

extracurricular activites
quote:

State-of-residence
quote:

Family income
quote:

Legacy status
quote:

Choice for major field of study
quote:

Admission essay


All of these things could be relevant to a university's mission and useful in evaluating potential students.
This post was edited on 10/31/22 at 4:08 pm
Posted by CAD703X
Liberty Island
Member since Jul 2008
94907 posts
Posted on 10/31/22 at 4:07 pm to
quote:

It is no longer the United States Supreme Court and is now and shall henceforth be called the conservative majority Supreme Court, until the majority is liberal again, and only then can they once again be called the United States Supreme Court.
Posted by thetempleowl
dallas, tx
Member since Jul 2008
16103 posts
Posted on 10/31/22 at 4:07 pm to
The supreme court seems skeptical because reverse racism as useful tool is moronic.

This entire thing frankly is ludicrous.

They should pick students regardless of race. Race should not be on the form.
Posted by UGATiger26
Jacksonville, FL
Member since Dec 2009
9153 posts
Posted on 10/31/22 at 4:09 pm to
quote:

If the institution can consider those variables, why can it not also consider race/ethnicity as one of many factors?


Because I think we already crossed this Rubicon when we decided that the owner of a private restaurant can't "consider race/ethnicity as one of many factors" when deciding to let someone into their establishment.
Posted by jimmy the leg
Member since Aug 2007
45403 posts
Posted on 10/31/22 at 4:12 pm to
quote:

If the institution can consider those variables, why can it not also consider race/ethnicity as one of many factors?


Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
44345 posts
Posted on 10/31/22 at 4:13 pm to
quote:

Because I think we already crossed this Rubicon when we decided that the owner of a private restaurant can't "consider race/ethnicity as one of many factors" when deciding to let someone into their establishment.
That is a statutory matter. Personally, I oppose the notion of public accommodation laws and protected classes.
Posted by UGATiger26
Jacksonville, FL
Member since Dec 2009
9153 posts
Posted on 10/31/22 at 4:16 pm to
quote:

That is a statutory matter. Personally, I oppose the notion of public accommodation laws and protected classes.


Then I'll at least commend your intellectual consistency on this matter.

There are better, philosophical reasons which I'm sure have been/will be pointed out.
This post was edited on 10/31/22 at 4:16 pm
Posted by troyt37
Member since Mar 2008
14696 posts
Posted on 10/31/22 at 4:20 pm to
quote:

If the institution can consider those variables, why can it not also consider race/ethnicity as one of many factors?



Because racism. If schools can choose students because they are a minority, why can't other schools and businesses choose people because they are white? If it weren't for double standards, you wouldn't have any at all, would you Hanky?
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
44345 posts
Posted on 10/31/22 at 4:24 pm to
quote:

If it weren't for double standards, you wouldn't have any at all, would you Hanky?
My angry little friend, my beliefs are among the most internally-consistent of any person you have ever met.
Posted by troyt37
Member since Mar 2008
14696 posts
Posted on 10/31/22 at 4:27 pm to
quote:

My angry little friend, my beliefs are among the most internally-consistent of any person you have ever met.



So you don't recognize racism when you see it, or it is okay to discriminate according to race, as long as the preferred race benefits?

You're so full of shite, your eyes are probably brown.
Posted by David_DJS
Member since Aug 2005
23066 posts
Posted on 10/31/22 at 4:28 pm to
quote:

my beliefs are among the most internally-consistent of any person you have ever met.

Whose beliefs are not internally-consistent? Sure, I suppose there are some people that don't agree with themselves sometimes, but they're looney tunes.
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