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Started By
Message
re: Russia on verge of biggest gain in Ukraine since summer
Posted on 1/13/23 at 10:57 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 1/13/23 at 10:57 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
No, Russia would just become part of NATO.
Russia joins NATO, Russia refuses to pay 2% of their GNP for defense against themselves and the U.S. makes up the difference...
1
Posted on 1/13/23 at 10:58 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
and you of course believe the mainstream talking points..
I don't know of any mainstream outlets pushing the EU angle like I am, or at least were when I started months ago
Posted on 1/13/23 at 10:58 am to GumboPot
quote:
Russia joins NATO, Russia refuses to pay 2% of their GNP for defense against themselves and the U.S. makes up the difference.
If Russia went on this path, the spending wouldn't matter.
You're talking China, NK, and... as even potential threats
Posted on 1/13/23 at 11:03 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
If Russia went on this path, the spending wouldn't matter.
You're talking China, NK, and... as even potential threats
Maybe the entire world can join NATO to fight climate change.
Posted on 1/13/23 at 11:13 am to doubleb
quote:That's why we began to isolate Yeltsin's Russia?
Russia is bad the West puts them in timeout so to speak.
The USSR dissolved. Russia elected Yeltsin.
Yet NATO expanded.
The result was predictable. The result was Putin.
But Putin proposed that if the West's objective was no longer to isolate, weaken, and impair Russia, that Russia join NATO.
NATO balked.
It is what it is.
Posted on 1/13/23 at 11:18 am to Powerman
quote:The Russian perception is Ukraine (and/or Georgia) to NATO is a threat to Russian national security.
They preemptively attacked Ukraine out of fear that they would join NATO
You maintain Russia should have waited until Ukraine was a member of NATO, and the result of conflict would be nuclear world war? Really?
Posted on 1/13/23 at 11:25 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:F a c t s
No, but the "wrong" becomes much less tenuous when you realize it was to correct Russian meddling.
n o t
i n
e v i d e n c e.
Regardless, the US reserves right to meddle in affairs of countries in our sphere of influence. We do so under the guise of US security and commerce. Russia does the same. Any attempt at equation of Russian influence in Ukraine affairs, and US meddling in Ukrainian affairs is ridiculous.
Posted on 1/13/23 at 11:36 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:Is your reference to "invasion" in the aftermath of our 2014 coup and junta installation not to Crimea?
the government we helped install wasn't in power when Russia invaded and, in fact ousted our puppet
This post was edited on 1/13/23 at 11:49 am
Posted on 1/13/23 at 11:57 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Let me ask you this. Are we right in meddling in Ukraine's affairs and elections?
Please define meddling?
I do believe the US had an obligation to live up to their promises. If we don’t then in the future countries won’t trust us and we will lose influence.
Posted on 1/13/23 at 12:02 pm to doubleb
quote:
I do believe the US had an obligation to live up to their promises. If we don’t then in the future countries won’t trust us and we will lose influence.
no we don't. neocon promises aren't US promises. so what if we lose influence? who cares? you're acting as if the whole world would suddenly stop consuming Americana junk.
you're full of shite kid.
This post was edited on 1/13/23 at 12:13 pm
Posted on 1/13/23 at 12:11 pm to GumboPot
Right wing joy over Russian success because we're spending "tax dollars" supporting Ukraine is dumb. That money would just get spent on minorities, Israel, 3rd world shitholes, and LGBTQ. Either way that shite is getting wasted.
Posted on 1/13/23 at 12:12 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
The Russian perception is Ukraine (and/or Georgia) to NATO is a threat to Russian national security.
Russia's public statements say that Russia believes Ukraine and Georgia to NATO is a threat to Russian security***
After the entirety of Russia's history over the past century or so, I have no idea why or how anyone would believe that what Moscow says publicly is the truth.
Posted on 1/13/23 at 12:12 pm to Old Money
quote:
That money would just get spent on minorities, Israel, 3rd world shitholes, and LGBTQ. Either way that shite is getting wasted.
Such a defeatist belief. Imagine being that naive regarding 100b dollars.
This post was edited on 1/13/23 at 12:13 pm
Posted on 1/13/23 at 12:14 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Yet NATO expanded.
The literal horror of sovereign states exercising their prerogative to conduct foreign policy as they see fit.
Absolutely outrageous that the Central and Eastern European members had the audacity to do what they felt necessary to protect their interests.
After all, Russia's publicly stated position is the only thing that matters, and all countries worldwide should determine their policy decisions based on Moscow's preferences.
This post was edited on 1/13/23 at 12:15 pm
Posted on 1/13/23 at 12:15 pm to NC_Tigah
Yeltsin and the old guard wanted NATO to be replaced by a new defense pact. They didn’t want to join NATO as it was at the time. They wanted to change NATO.
Posted on 1/13/23 at 12:16 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
The literal horror of sovereign states exercising their prerogative to conduct foreign policy as they see fit.
Both you and I know that's not whats happening here.
Ukraine is our proxy, period.
Posted on 1/13/23 at 12:18 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Both you and I know that's not whats happening here.
I didn't respond to you. I responded to NC_Tigah's characterization of post-1992 NATO expansion, and it had nothing to do with Ukraine.
This post was edited on 1/13/23 at 12:19 pm
Posted on 1/13/23 at 12:18 pm to Goonie02
quote:
no we don't. neocon promises aren't US promises. so what if we lose influence? who cares? you're acting as if the whole world would suddenly stop consuming Americana junk. you're full of shite kid.
Lol, so now Bill Clinton is a neocon???
Posted on 1/13/23 at 12:19 pm to doubleb
quote:
Lol, so now Bill Clinton is a neocon???
The Clintons? They may be the second in command to the Bush clan.
Of course the Clintons are neocons. Are you dense?
Posted on 1/13/23 at 12:32 pm to doubleb
quote:
Lol, so now Bill Clinton is a neocon???
Clinton is a neoliberal. his foreign policy was run by neocons like Victoria Nuland and gang. just because a president is a democrat doesn't mean they aren't working with Neocons. these rats are deeply imbedded in America's foreign policy think tanks.
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