re: Rubio: US Military bases in Europe are useless if we can't use them when we need them

I think it's more about airspace considerations. And here is the thing...the countries that allow us to use the bases would then become targets. I get their apprehension for that reason.

quote:

---

Well yes. Both efforts in Iraq by Bush I and Bush II saw much more diplomacy and public interaction than this effort took, and arguably, this effort was far more consequential. The lack of priming both allies and the public about the realities of the operation was a real oversight on the part of the Trump admin.

---

This type of analysis gets no engagement from the majority of this board. Not really interested in a real discussion of cause and effect.

quote:

---

think it's more about airspace considerations. And here is the thing...the countries that allow us to use the bases would then become targets. I get their apprehension for that reason.

---

They could have become targets of a nuke. Iran had been lying about long range rockets that could reach all of Europe.

Since they played that card. I wish Trump would put them on notice that we will use our investments, that are there for their defense, at our discretion.

Britain and France have their own nukes…those in Germany, Belgium, The Netherlands and Italy are US weapons as part of the burden-sharing arrangement with NATO. Those would be the ones to remove.

quote:

---

The lack of priming both allies and the public about the realities of the operation was a real oversight on the part of the Trump admin.

---

In a vacuum this may be true, but I dont think the administration trusts them to keep from leaking. One of the reasons these operations have been so successful is the element of surprise. Trump has been stabbed in the back before by Europe, so I get the sensitivity.

They were trying to accomplish strategic surprise. You don’t tell someone you are coming.

Remember signal gate? A text message between high level officials could have gotten our pilots killed. Remember that dem propaganda.

quote:

---

In a vacuum this may be true, but I dont think the administration trusts them to keep from leaking. One of the reasons these operations have been so successful is the element of surprise. Trump has been stabbed in the back before by Europe, so I get the sensitivity.

---

Well, neither priming efforts for Iraq were all that secret. And I'm talking about doing an operation the only way to dislodge an enemy, with ground troops. The notion that an air campaign was going to dislodge the IRGC was a fiction and thus, there was no element of surprise needed. The reality is that the US military's ability is why these operations have been relatively successful, but military ability without clear political objectives does not mean very much.

And regardless, diplomacy, understanding different viewpoints, understanding why Europeans might be hesitant at an operation (for instance, not wanting to cause another refugee crisis, as Iran has millions of Afghan refugees who are somewhat in a stateless purgatory and thus have every incentive to go to places where they would get paperwork at the minimum, meaning through Turkey to the West) is a net good. Negotiating airspace access, operation access, logistical support etc. is all part of the diplomatic necessity of doing this operation the 'correct' way, i.e, replacing the Iranian regime.

quote:

---

Negotiating airspace access,

---

They mentioned it to Starmer a few weeks before the strike, he basically said he’d have to get back to them. He didn’t even reposition his own assets. We can’t operate on the UKs timetable.

quote:

---

Why are you assuming that Europe are actually Allies?

---

Because diplomacy is a net good regardless.

He isn't wrong.