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Robert Kagan (husband of Victoria Nuland) attacks Trump

Posted on 4/29/24 at 6:57 am
Posted by POTUS2024
Member since Nov 2022
11289 posts
Posted on 4/29/24 at 6:57 am
This is from an opinion piece by Kagan (husband of Victoria Nuland) in WAPO. The youtube channel The Gaggle discussed this article and present some snapshots from it. Their video is 97 minutes. The Gaggle.

Summary: Kagan paints such a dire picture of the world if Trump (and the isolationist agenda) is elected that one of the hosts says that he is effectively calling for the assassination of Trump. I think you can also see that Kagan is lobbing an initial volley into a future argument that we must put troops in Ukraine. More on that below.

The Gaggle is George Szamuely and Peter Lavelle. Szamuely is basically a political writer/commentator as is Lavelle but Lavelle hosts a show on RT where they talk about world events. Not sure about Szamuely but Lavelle is from the US and married a Russian lady and now lives in Russia. Many of their views align with that area many here tend to group into the COL MacGregor type of group - I think that's a fair generalization. Enough for introductory material.

Some cliffs:
1. The Kagan piece makes various attacks on Trump, such as being a narcissist and that he only acts in his own interests and not the country's interests. This is interwoven into the policy arguments.
2. Kagan is upset that some Republicans are going back to being isolationists with Trump as the leader of that movement.
3. Kagan tries to frame his default interventionist approach (like Graham, Kristol et al) as "America First" by claiming threats to Europe, Asia, and the US if Russia prevails in Ukraine. He brings up Reagan, which seems pretty typical when people want to stir things up with, "Reagan would have taken this position so you should too" type of comments and positions.
4. Kagan says the first America First Committee was established in 1940, just after Germany started invading everything in Europe, and we all know the US was soon in that war. That committee had a general isolationist position. The insinuation is that this committee was pro-Nazi and of course that is then connected to Trump and others that are more isolationist than interventionist.
5. Kagan goes on to name Josh Hawley as being part of the isolationist group. JD Vance as well.
6. Kagan says the Trump movement wants to take us back to a triad of: "high tariffs, anti-immigrant xenophobia, isolationism". He juxtaposes this with entry into WWII, which is painted as the right thing etc etc.
7. Kagan says, "It was the belief that the United States had both an interest and an obligation to support a liberal democratic, capitalist order, and to do so by committing to alliances and deploying hundreds of thousands of GI's thousands of miles from American shores."
8. Kagan claims that Putin has ambitions to "restore Moscow's hegemony in Eastern and Central Europe." And, that if we care about what happens in Europe that we must care about what happens in Ukraine. So he's equating Ukraine with the American notion of Europe.
9. Kagan ties isolation like Hawley discusses to Trump's "poison the blood" campaign and then says this is about White Christian America and its belief that various groups (different racial / ethnic groups) are conspiring against it. He's painting the typical caricature we often see.
10. Kagan goes on to say that Trump and the associated movement will bring us back to a 1930's world.
11. Kagan says to imagine a year into Trump's term and Ukraine falls and what would happen if Trump did not respond with a "more substantial American commitment". We all know Ukraine is going to fall, so this is about waiting for it to crumble and then rushing in US forces which would not only have to serve as a buffer against further Russian movement westward but would then be tasked to go on the attack to push Russian forces back to Russia and we all know that the war mongers like Kagan, Graham et al will then say "go to Moscow".
12. Kagan forecasts great calamity for the Baltic countries, Poland, Germany, etc. He says this will spawn an arms race with more nations going nuclear because the US is not there.
13. Then he says this will embolden China and criticizes older Americans that may vote for Trump and then won't live to deal with the consequences, but their children and grandkids will. He says "posterity will not mistake them for The Greatest Generation". Dude is pulling out all the stops on emotional persuasion.

In short, if Trump is elected, all the dominoes are going to fall, war and aggression will be everywhere, Russia and China will conquer all, everyone will go nuclear etc.
Posted by Bunk Moreland
Member since Dec 2010
53542 posts
Posted on 4/29/24 at 7:01 am to
quote:

The same cabal of warmongering pundits, foreign policy specialists and government officials, year after year, debacle after debacle, smugly dodge responsibility for the military fiascos they orchestrate. They are protean, shifting adroitly with the political winds, moving from the Republican Party to the Democratic Party and then back again, mutating from cold warriors to neocons to liberal interventionists. Pseudo intellectuals, they exude a cloying Ivy League snobbery as they sell perpetual fear, perpetual war, and a racist worldview, where the lesser breeds of the earth only understand violence.

They are pimps of war, puppets of the Pentagon, a state within a state, and the defense contractors who lavishly fund their think tanks — Project for the New American Century, American Enterprise Institute, Foreign Policy Initiative, Institute for the Study of War, Atlantic Council and Brookings Institution. Like some mutant strain of an antibiotic-resistant bacteria, they cannot be vanquished. It does not matter how wrong they are, how absurd their theories, how many times they lie or denigrate other cultures and societies as uncivilized or how many murderous military interventions go bad. They are immovable props, the parasitic mandarins of power that are vomited up in the dying days of any empire, including ours, leaping from one self-defeating catastrophe to the next.

I spent 20 years as a foreign correspondent reporting on the suffering, misery, and murderous rampages these shills for war engineered and funded. My first encounter with them was in Central America. Elliot Abrams — convicted of providing misleading testimony to Congress on the Iran-Contra Affair and later pardoned by President George H.W. Bush so he could return to government to sell us the Iraq War — and Robert Kagan, director of the State Department’s public diplomacy office for Latin America — were propagandists for the brutal military regimes in El Salvador and Guatemala, as well as the rapists and homicidal thugs that made up the rogue Contra forces fighting the Sandinista government in Nicaragua, which they illegally funded. Their job was to discredit our reporting.

They, and their coterie of fellow war lovers, went on to push for the expansion of NATO in Central and Eastern Europe after the fall of the Berlin Wall, violating an agreement not to extend NATO beyond the borders of a unified Germany and recklessly antagonizing Russia. They were and are cheerleaders for the apartheid state of Israel, justifying its war crimes against Palestinians and myopically conflating Israel’s interests with our own. They advocated for air strikes in Serbia, calling for the US to “take out” Slobodan Milosevic. They were the authors of the policy to invade Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and Libya. Robert Kagan and William Kristol, with their typical cluelessness, wrote in April 2002 that “the road that leads to real security and peace” is “the road that runs through Baghdad.”

We saw how that worked out. That road led to the dissolution of Iraq, the destruction of its civilian infrastructure, including the obliteration of 18 of 20 electricity-generating plants and nearly all the water-pumping and sanitation systems during a 43-day period when 90,000 tons of bombs were rained down on the country, the rise of radical jihadist groups throughout the region, and failed states. The war in Iraq, along with the humiliating defeat in Afghanistan, shredded the illusion of US military and global hegemony. It also inflicted on Iraqis, who had nothing to do with the attacks of 9/11, the widespread killing of civilians, the torture and sexual humiliation of Iraqi prisoners, and the ascendancy of Iran as the preeminent power in the region. They continue to call for a war with Iran, with Fred Kagan stating that “there is nothing we can do short of attacking to force Iran to give up its nuclear weapons.” They pushed for the overthrow of President Nicholas Maduro, after trying to do the same to Hugo Chavez, in Venezuela. They have targeted Daniel Ortega, their old nemesis in Nicaragua.

They embrace a purblind nationalism that prohibits them from seeing the world from any perspective other than their own. They know nothing about the machinery of war, its consequences, or its inevitable blowback. They know nothing about the peoples and cultures they target for violent regeneration. They believe in their divine right to impose their “values” on others by force. Fiasco after fiasco. Now they are stoking a war with Russia.

“The nationalist is by definition an ignoramus,” Yugoslav writer Danilo Kiš observed. “Nationalism is the line of least resistance, the easy way. The nationalist is untroubled, he knows or thinks he knows what his values are, his, that’s to say national, that’s to say the values of the nation he belongs to, ethical and political; he is not interested in others, they are no concern of his, hell — it’s other people (other nations, another tribe). They don’t even need investigating. The nationalist sees other people in his own images — as nationalists.”

The Biden administration is filled with these ignoramuses, including Joe Biden. Victoria Nuland, the wife of Robert Kagan, serves as Biden’s undersecretary of state for political affairs. Antony Blinken is secretary of state. Jake Sullivan is national security advisor. They come from this cabal of moral and intellectual trolls that includes Kimberly Kagan, the wife of Fred Kagan, who founded The Institute for the Study of War, William Kristol, Max Boot, John Podhoretz, Gary Schmitt, Richard Perle, Douglas Feith, David Frum, and others. Many were once staunch Republicans or, like Nuland, served in Republican and Democratic administrations. Nuland was the principal deputy foreign policy adviser to Vice President Dick Cheney.

They are united by the demand for larger and larger defense budgets and an ever expanding military. Julian Benda called these courtiers to power “the self-made barbarians of the intelligentsia.”

The Pimps Of War.
Posted by Prettyboy Floyd
Pensacola, Florida
Member since Dec 2013
15666 posts
Posted on 4/29/24 at 7:06 am to
quote:

In short, if Trump is elected, all the dominoes are going to fall, war and aggression will be everywhere, Russia and China will conquer all, everyone will go nuclear etc.


Damn, it's almost like we've had 4 years of Trump and none of this shite happened. However all of this shite is currently happening under someone else. Go figure
Posted by texas tortilla
houston
Member since Dec 2015
1852 posts
Posted on 4/29/24 at 7:11 am to
i think eliott abrams showed up in the trump administration to advise on venezuela.
Posted by Bard
Definitely NOT an admin
Member since Oct 2008
51716 posts
Posted on 4/29/24 at 7:11 am to
quote:

I spent 20 years as a foreign correspondent reporting on the suffering, misery, and murderous rampages these shills for war engineered and funded. My first encounter with them was in Central America. Elliot Abrams — convicted of providing misleading testimony to Congress on the Iran-Contra Affair and later pardoned by President George H.W. Bush so he could return to government to sell us the Iraq War — and Robert Kagan, director of the State Department’s public diplomacy office for Latin America — were propagandists for the brutal military regimes in El Salvador and Guatemala, as well as the rapists and homicidal thugs that made up the rogue Contra forces fighting the Sandinista government in Nicaragua, which they illegally funded. Their job was to discredit our reporting.


And now we know a source of his fuel for hating Trump. Trump is the only President in decades to not get us into a new war. Not having a war to wage is bad for the MIC's business.
Posted by thebigmuffaletta
Member since Aug 2017
12971 posts
Posted on 4/29/24 at 7:13 am to
Someone needs to tell that dumbass that not only has Biden kept Trump’s tariffs, he’s expanded them.
Posted by VoxDawg
Glory, Glory
Member since Sep 2012
60281 posts
Posted on 4/29/24 at 7:17 am to
quote:

Robert Kagan (husband of Victoria Nuland)

Always the same cast of characters. It would be fascinating to ponder the coincidences... if only they didn't keep happening.
Posted by sotex
Member since Oct 2018
208 posts
Posted on 4/29/24 at 7:23 am to
Exactly right. The war pimp caucus needs to be crushed.
Posted by tide06
Member since Oct 2011
11218 posts
Posted on 4/29/24 at 7:26 am to
Was this session sponsored by McDonnell-Douglas, Lockheed-Martin, General Dynamics or all of the above?
Posted by thermal9221
Youngsville
Member since Feb 2005
13271 posts
Posted on 4/29/24 at 7:28 am to
What a fricking a-hole.
His wife is a cold blooded killer.
Posted by POTUS2024
Member since Nov 2022
11289 posts
Posted on 4/29/24 at 7:46 am to
quote:

The Pimps Of War.


That's a good piece.
Posted by Tchefuncte Tiger
Bat'n Rudge
Member since Oct 2004
57281 posts
Posted on 4/29/24 at 7:49 am to
quote:

They have targeted Daniel Ortega, their old nemesis in Nicaragua.


That guy has some good points, but anyone who touts the Sandinistas and Daniel Ortega cannot be taken seriously.
Posted by DotBling
Member since Oct 2019
2947 posts
Posted on 4/29/24 at 7:53 am to
quote:

Robert Kagan


Is a gay.
Posted by mauser
Orange Beach
Member since Nov 2008
21668 posts
Posted on 4/29/24 at 7:55 am to
These people gave billions invested overseas and they want US tax dollars to protect their investments .
Posted by teke184
Zachary, LA
Member since Jan 2007
96060 posts
Posted on 4/29/24 at 8:02 am to
Not wanting to throw money down the toilet in Ukraine doesn’t mean someone is “isolationist.” It means they don’t want to throw money down a fricking toilet.
Posted by SirWinston
PNW
Member since Jul 2014
81982 posts
Posted on 4/29/24 at 8:07 am to
Mate that little doggo that the guy on the Gaggle holds up is so cute
Posted by teke184
Zachary, LA
Member since Jan 2007
96060 posts
Posted on 4/29/24 at 8:13 am to
quote:

Kagan says to imagine a year into Trump's term and Ukraine falls


Most military age males in Ukraine are dead. It is falling no matter how much money is spent.

The difference between this and Afghanistan is that there was a chance of an Afghanistan pullout that wasn’t a clusterfrick if Biden’s team had used any goddamn common sense, like not pulling out during military campaign season and not shuttering the airbase so they could keep an embassy instead when the airbase was central to the Afghani military’s operations.
Posted by KiwiHead
Auckland, NZ
Member since Jul 2014
27616 posts
Posted on 4/29/24 at 8:33 am to
Anytime I see Victoria Nuland's name associated with foreign policy, I shutter.

However, the concern that Putin has expansionist ambitions may be a tad bit overblown. Yeah, he wants Ukraine and if he succeeds there, he may get an "Anschluss" of sorts with Belarus, but beyond that I don't see anything else.

If Putin were to move on the Baltic or Romania he would experience the full might of NATO. That is something he probably does not want. NATO weapons systems used by NATO personnel is far superior to any Russian systems in the field today. We've already proven it in Ukraine when the Ukes beat back the Russians from Kyiv using our anti tank missiles.
Posted by LSUvet72
Member since Sep 2013
12060 posts
Posted on 4/29/24 at 8:43 am to
Take a hike Robert Kagan and take your war bitch with you.
Posted by Chief One Word
Eastern Washington State
Member since Mar 2018
3696 posts
Posted on 4/29/24 at 9:05 am to
Victoria Nuland should have played the evil queen in that Disney World resort.
This post was edited on 4/29/24 at 9:06 am
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