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Started By
Message
re: Putin’s Invasion Had the Opposite Intended Effect - Russia Now Surrounded by NATO
Posted on 2/27/24 at 9:12 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 2/27/24 at 9:12 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Moldova
Not necessary. The FSB already keeps Transnistria destabilized just for this purpose.
0
Posted on 2/27/24 at 9:13 am to Tantal
quote:
Russia's problem is that they're geographically huge and sitting on mountains of resources, but have a dwindling population capable of defending them.
Russia could avoid all of this by joining the modern world economically.
quote:
As their population continues to decline and their neighbors are hungry for those resources, someone (probably a multitude of countries) are going to try to take them by force.
Wait...what?
The EU is going to "take it by force" by having Ukraine join and be able to trade those resources more freely and get richer and more developed in the process. THE HORROR.
quote:
While that sounds harsh, just keep in mind that most of what Russia has currently they took from someone else first.
Like they're doing in Ukraine today.
This dinosaur thinking is why Russia is barely above third world status today. Russia is a poor shithole because it refuses to join the modern world. Or, more specifically, Putin refuses to allow it to.
Trade and commerce remove the need for military force, but that is a modern existence. Putin rejects this.
Posted on 2/27/24 at 9:14 am to stout
quote:
Looks more like a coup attempt by rebels than a Russian invasion
The opposite of a coup. A Breakaway by ethnic Russians.
Same playbook a Georgia and Ukraine.
quote:
Our CIA supports the same crap from time to time without invading
I don't remember which countries the US annexed via military invasion due to "ethnic Americans" being in peril.
Posted on 2/27/24 at 9:21 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Yes. It's a blank canvas for CTs to create their latest work.
And to develop things like COVID-19 which could not be done in the US.
Posted on 2/27/24 at 9:25 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Russia could avoid all of this by joining the modern world economically.
Might watch Gonzalo Lira's video on Nuland and catch up.
You know when the State Dept has you jailed in a foreign country and later beaten to death, you are over the target.
Posted on 2/27/24 at 9:28 am to RFK
If Russia is a paper tiger like y'all all believe, why the frick does NATO still exist? Why are we still funding foreign militaries?
If Russia is this paper tiger you believe it is...
If Russia is this paper tiger you believe it is...
Posted on 2/27/24 at 9:39 am to riccoar
quote:
Might watch Gonzalo Lira's video on Nuland and catch up.
You know when the State Dept has you jailed in a foreign country and later beaten to death, you are over the target.
What does this have to do with Russia joining the developed, modern world?
Posted on 2/27/24 at 9:40 am to stout
quote:
hate that having a discussion leads to several here opting for the simple-minded "Putin defender" talking point.
Sure, though there legitimately are people on here who defend Putin or repeat his talking points as fact.
Posted on 2/27/24 at 9:41 am to SlowFlowPro
(no message)
This post was edited on 2/27/24 at 9:50 am
Posted on 2/27/24 at 9:46 am to RFK
He was going to be surrounded by NATO eventually and everyone knew it. This is precisely why he moved on Ukraine - which we recently learned was a CIA snake pit.
Posted on 2/27/24 at 9:53 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:If the EU was important, it would be included in the peace resolutions. Yet it isn't even mentioned.
If the EU wasn't important, then why did Putin, via Yanukovych, pull the rug out in November of 2013?
Posted on 2/27/24 at 9:55 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
If the EU was important, it would be included in the peace resolutions. Yet it isn't even mentioned.
From your own link:
quote:
(5) In exchange for giving up NATO, the EU Member States present among the guarantors (including Germany and France) guarantee Ukraine's assistance in joining the European Union.
Posted on 2/27/24 at 9:59 am to thermal9221
We will end up fricking up Eastern Europe under the guise of nation building just like weve done in the mideast.
Its what we do best.
Its what we do best.
Posted on 2/27/24 at 10:00 am to meansonny
quote:Iraq to overthrow Saddam
Does NATO have a recent history of invading countries?
NATO provided air support to Libyan rebels overthrowing Gaddafi
Those are just instances of NATO forces directly engaging in fighting, not counting proxy wars.
Posted on 2/27/24 at 10:05 am to Tiger Prawn
quote:
Iraq to overthrow Saddam
The first one? That was a UN mission.
The one in 2003 has no NATO involvement. The Coalition of the Willing did that stupidity.
quote:
NATO provided air support to Libyan rebels overthrowing Gaddafi
Again, UN.
quote:
Those are just instances of NATO forces directly engaging in fighting
At the request/approval of UNSC.
Try again.
This post was edited on 2/27/24 at 10:06 am
Posted on 2/27/24 at 10:13 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:Christsakes! Post that BS on the OT. You'll get a ton of upvotes. But here, we deal in facts.
Russia rejected a peace deal before the invasion
First off, your link says this:
quote:
Putin had repeatedly asserted prior to the war that NATO and its military infrastructure were creeping closer to Russia's borders by accepting new members from eastern Europe, and that the alliance was now preparing to bring Ukraine into its orbit too. Putin publicly said that represented an existential threat to Russia, forcing him to react.
Second, before the invasion, Ukraine did not offer a peace deal. Ukraine did not offer to drop NATO aspirations (quite the opposite), and continued to provoke Russia (cutting off the Crimean Canal, breaches of accords in the Donbas, etc) right up to the day of invasion.
So, no, Russia did not reject a peace deal before the invasion. The peace offerings were only forwarded two days after the invasion. By then the Russians were thoroughly committed to military action. Putin assumed he'd be able to dictate any terms he desired in a few weeks. Russia miscalculated.
From your link:
quote:
Two of the three sources said a push to get the deal finalized occurred immediately after Russia's Feb. 24 invasion. Within days, Kozak believed he had Ukraine's agreement to the main terms Russia had been seeking and recommended to Putin that he sign an agreement, the sources said.
This post was edited on 2/27/24 at 10:29 am
Posted on 2/27/24 at 10:18 am to RFK
Putin is institutionalized in the old ways of the USSR and seems to dream of that hollow ‘empire”returning with an east/west Cold War he somehow thinks he can win this time.
But it will come crashing down just like before.
But it will come crashing down just like before.
Posted on 2/27/24 at 10:19 am to TejasHorn
quote:
But it will come crashing down just like before.
Of course. And we will frick it up forever, like we do most places we attempt regime changes.
We all know what the purpose here really is.
Russia aint my problem. My own government is.
This post was edited on 2/27/24 at 10:20 am
Posted on 2/27/24 at 10:25 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Russia could avoid all of this by joining the modern world economically.
Everyone was already buying their stuff and they invaded Ukraine anyway. Joining the modern world economically doesn't mean that some country or countries might grow tired of buying their commodities when it would be easier and cheaper to just take them.
quote:Russia has forcibly confiscated land and resources from numerous countries (Ukraine, Finland, China, and Japan) who could easily decide that they want those lands back once Russia is demographically incapable of defending them.
The EU is going to "take it by force" by having Ukraine join and be able to trade those resources more freely and get richer and more developed in the process.
Posted on 2/27/24 at 10:27 am to RFK
quote:
NATO is now completely staged along Russia’s western border. If Putin invaded Ukraine to deter NATO, I’m sure he now wishes he could go back to 2021.
RFK?
RFK = Real F'n Kook
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