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Message
re: Putin’s Invasion Had the Opposite Intended Effect - Russia Now Surrounded by NATO
Posted on 2/27/24 at 8:17 am to RFK
Posted on 2/27/24 at 8:17 am to RFK
quote:
Finland joined NATO last year and now Sweden has overcome the final hurdle this week to join the alliance after 200 years of neutrality.
NATO is now completely staged along Russia’s western border. If Putin invaded Ukraine to deter NATO, I’m sure he now wishes he could go back to 2021.
This is a significant transformation in the alliance that will cut off Russia even more from the west and western values. It’s h fortunate for the people of Russia, but their fate is in Putin’s hands.
For those who believe in a strong European security alliance, this is a good move and a historic week. I believe this will allow America and western values to prosper for years to come.
Did this come from Bill Kristol's morning email distro?
0
Posted on 2/27/24 at 8:17 am to NC_Tigah
Good work. There have been 5-10 confirmations about that deal, from Ukrainian guys, to I think Fiona Hill, Israel, and Turkey.
Prof Sachs was privy to similar info in December 2021.
LINK
Prof Sachs was privy to similar info in December 2021.
quote:
"This war was completely avoidable. The party in this conflict that actually sought diplomacy repeatedly was Russia.
Not something you'd read in the New York Times...
LINK
Posted on 2/27/24 at 8:18 am to Bunk Moreland
Any sort of diplomacy sought by Russia is a temporary pause for them to regroup before attacking again.
Posted on 2/27/24 at 8:19 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
Without a viable alternative the dollar isn’t going anywhere as a reserve currency.
I realize this is likely for the foreseeable future. That still doesn’t change the fact that the us swift sanctions were ill advised. Why should China or say even Saudi hold their reserves in western systems if they can be “frozen” if they step out of line with the us led agenda? That is forcing everyone else to at least think of alternatives. What’s more valuable to the world - the Russian reserves or the paper dollars? We will find this out some time in the future and I have an idea which one wins.
Posted on 2/27/24 at 8:19 am to SlowFlowPro
If Russia exists on the border of nothingness and irrelevancy then European countries should have no difficulty pushing them back on their own without funding or other assistance from the US. Let those countries go into massive debt and bring our money home where we need it to fix things here, such as infrastructure and crime.
Posted on 2/27/24 at 8:19 am to Draconian Sanctions
Funny you say that because Merkel and Hollande admitted that the Minsk II agreements were a scam to build up Ukrainian forces.
Posted on 2/27/24 at 8:21 am to RFK
quote:
Putin’s Invasion
Can you expound on the secret American bio-weapons laboratories in Ukraine and the secret CIA bases couples along side them?
Can you tell us if any of these locations have seen attacks by Russia?
Oh, you didn't know? You just thought we were trying to bring Democracy to little ole Ukraine?
Posted on 2/27/24 at 8:21 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Here are three accounts of the April 2022 peacetalks status before the UK/US scuttled them. NATO was the primary concern according to EVERYONE. The thing speaks for itself.
quote:
All sources show a similar Ukraine vision of a peace deal.
quote:
(5) In exchange for giving up NATO, the EU Member States present among the guarantors (including Germany and France) guarantee Ukraine's assistance in joining the European Union.
Proving my point
Where in that link did Russia agree to any of those ?
Also, let's not forget: Russia rejected a peace deal before the invasion
quote:
Vladimir Putin's chief envoy on Ukraine told the Russian leader as the war began that he had struck a provisional deal with Kyiv that would satisfy Russia's demand that Ukraine stay out of NATO, opens new tab, but Putin rejected it and pressed ahead with his military campaign, according to three people close to the Russian leadership.
The Ukrainian-born envoy, Dmitry Kozak, told Putin , opens new tabthat he believed the deal he had hammered out removed the need for Russia to pursue a large-scale occupation of Ukraine, opens new tab, according to these sources. Kozak's recommendation to Putin to adopt the deal is being reported by Reuters for the first time.
Putin had repeatedly asserted prior to the war that NATO and its military infrastructure were creeping closer to Russia's borders by accepting new members from eastern Europe, and that the alliance was now preparing to bring Ukraine into its orbit too. Putin publicly said that represented an existential threat to Russia, forcing him to react.
But, despite earlier backing the negotiations, Putin made it clear when presented with Kozak's deal that the concessions negotiated by his aide did not go far enough and that he had expanded his objectives to include annexing swathes of Ukrainian territory, the sources said. The upshot: the deal was dropped.
Posted on 2/27/24 at 8:22 am to TigerDog83
I’m not going to argue with you. In fairness I think it’s tough when you’re trying to respond in a way that’s meaningful, not just for a Russian but what China sees as meaningful as well. We can debate CIA actions in Eastern Europe, and I would probably agree with you, but there’s no doubt control of Taiwan and the South China Sea are significantly for our economy.
Posted on 2/27/24 at 8:22 am to riccoar
quote:
Can you expound on the secret American bio-weapons laboratories in Ukraine and the secret CIA bases couples along side them?
NOW IT'S A PARTY
Posted on 2/27/24 at 8:23 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
NOW IT'S A PARTY
If we are just finding out about the CIA bases then is it a stretch that the biolabs Putin mentioned really did exist?
Im not saying they did or didn't but that it's not that far of a stretch based on yesterdays news
This post was edited on 2/27/24 at 8:25 am
Posted on 2/27/24 at 8:28 am to stout
quote:
If we are just finding out about the CIA bases then is it a stretch that the biolabs Putin mentioned really did exist?
There is your typical CT loose language being used by the CT types.
I'm sure there are labs in Ukraine dealing with biological analysis. We have some in Lake Charles.
Now, are these "biolabs" somehow nefarious actors? There is literally no evidence of this.
And the CIA being involved after Russian aggression isn't a big reveal. Very few, if anyone, was arguing that we didn't have assets helping the Ukrainian population responding to the Russian aggression. I remember talking about this in real time in the OT thread when the riots were going on.
Posted on 2/27/24 at 8:29 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
so we don't need to litigate that one.
We don't "litigate" anything on here, counselor. We are having a discussion, which admittedly usually devolves into a shouting match or simple shitposting.
Posted on 2/27/24 at 8:31 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:What about all those nations NATO has invaded in the past. Huh? Huh?
This aggression was never actually about NATO.
Posted on 2/27/24 at 8:31 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
There is your typical CT loose language being used by the CT types.
I'm sure there are labs in Ukraine dealing with biological analysis. We have some in Lake Charles.
The implications are they were doing more than simple analysis. The allegations are they were doing gain of function and more that is not allowed in the US. Fauci had labs all over doing GoF and more.
quote:
And the CIA being involved after Russian aggression isn't a big reveal.
Yes but I think the level of their involvement is the reveal.
Posted on 2/27/24 at 8:31 am to stout
I wouldn't be surprised if it were true.
That doesn't make Putin the good actor here though
That doesn't make Putin the good actor here though
Posted on 2/27/24 at 8:34 am to Jake88
quote:
What about all those nations NATO has invaded in the past. Huh? Huh?
I think you're being sarcastically but I'll still respond as an autist to hammer home the point: when has NATO ever invaded without UN authorization/request?
Posted on 2/27/24 at 8:35 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
That doesn't make Putin the good actor here though
I never said he was. I hate that having a discussion leads to several here opting for the simple-minded "Putin defender" talking point.
I am fully aware of what Putin is. I am also indifferent to what happens between Russia and Ukraine and want zero American or NATO involvement but the latter is no longer an option since Ukraine will join which will lead to more American involvement.
Russia is not going to walk all over Europe like the fear mongers suggested when this first started. That has always been the excuse for America to fund and be involved. Its a lie.
This post was edited on 2/27/24 at 8:37 am
Posted on 2/27/24 at 8:37 am to stout
quote:
The implications are they were doing more than simple analysis.
That's the CT portion. But they use the fact that "biolabs" exist as some proof, when that is a leap in logic (which you expect with CTs b/c that's what they do).
quote:
The allegations are they were doing gain of function and more that is not allowed in the US.
Again, theoretically possible, but there is GOF done all over the world. China fricked it up once, and there were some effects felt, clearly, but 99.9999999999% of the time it's done without any issue. Even if Ukraine had some labs doing GOF, it's not bad or evil.
Posted on 2/27/24 at 8:41 am to stout
quote:
The only way to claim this is to be completely obtuse to how many Governments the USA has toppled or sought to topple.
Why are people equating espionage and literal war?
Both sides poke each other politically with election interference.
Retaliation for that is expected on both sides.
But invading countries is completely different than CIA espionage.
And to confuse the two is ridiculous.
NATO is a defensive measure against invasion.
If you had a point, you wouldn't need the strawman.
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