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re: Please inform me. Why did Obama think health insurance should be controlled by the feds?

Posted on 7/3/17 at 7:24 pm to
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135444 posts
Posted on 7/3/17 at 7:24 pm to
quote:

My health insurance now is useless garbage, what in the frick? I'm $5k and counting out of pocket for a broken ankle which required surgery for my son.
But his pap smear is free!
Posted by Centinel
Idaho
Member since Sep 2016
44181 posts
Posted on 7/3/17 at 7:26 pm to
quote:

But his pap smear is free!


Hey now, don't forget his free mammogram!
Posted by skullhawk
My house
Member since Nov 2007
27110 posts
Posted on 7/3/17 at 7:26 pm to
quote:

I am for single payer, free to poors,cheap to most.


Single payer would be too expensive in the US. We'd have to somehow cut way back on medical spending over the next 2-3 decades to make it work. Start with availability but you think people are pissed now? Wait until you need surgery to alleviate debilitating pain and the gov tells you to wait 6-9 months.

The problem is, folks expect current US healthcare under the single payer system. It's impossible.
Posted by Iowa Golfer
Heaven
Member since Dec 2013
10605 posts
Posted on 7/3/17 at 7:27 pm to
Why? Technically he used for the common welfare. I can't read his mind, only speculate like everyone else on here. Not worth speculating. All I need to do is look back and watch the behaviors and actions not match the words, and draw my own conclusion.

We really already had pre existing conditions covered. If you had a job with benefits. We've had unlimited medical and lost wages in most states though workers compensation. There are actuarial numbers, and years and results to support it. I'm confused by some of the debate on this board because of these facts. And they're facts, a quick Google search shows this.

But I'm with Rand Paul on this. Separate the repeal from the replace. Vote on repeal. Let the replace fail. Tweak some guidelines. One open enrollment period for pre existing conditions, and if it lapses, you're out of luck.

Insurance in interstate commerce, not intrastate commerce no mater how loudly some seem to argue differently. It is. You can Google that as well.

Again, I really have a difficult time with some of the arguments some conservatives are making on this. There not conservative for one.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135444 posts
Posted on 7/3/17 at 7:27 pm to
quote:

Back then I was just lucky I didn't have my policy completely rescinded because I might have forget to cross a 'T" or dot an "I."
Wow! Just wow!

Lucky indeed . . .

You could always travel as a medical tourist to Mexico or Cuba.
Posted by Bestbank Tiger
Premium Member
Member since Jan 2005
79068 posts
Posted on 7/3/17 at 7:29 pm to
quote:

Define affordable?


Premium is closer to a cable bill than a mortgage payment?

quote:

low lifetime limits that mean if I get really sick insurance will not be there for me? For plans that have enormous deductibles that make routine and minor emergency care barely affordable? 


My old plan had no lifetime limit.

And...

quote:

enormous deductibles that make routine and minor emergency care barely affordable?


Are much more a feature of Obamacare than the old system.

Posted by Junky
Louisiana
Member since Oct 2005
9069 posts
Posted on 7/3/17 at 7:32 pm to
quote:

Power and control of the populace.


/thread
Posted by bonhoeffer45
Member since Jul 2016
4367 posts
Posted on 7/3/17 at 7:33 pm to
quote:

Single payer would be too expensive in the US. We'd have to somehow cut way back on medical spending over the next 2-3 decades to make it work. Start with availability but you think people are pissed now? Wait until you need surgery to alleviate debilitating pain and the gov tells you to wait 6-9 months.


Single-payer is what you make of it.

Single payer is strictly the way care is administered and paid for. At least in a straight textbook sense. Most countries have their own wrinkles and complexities. And we probably would to.

Medicare is largely single payer. Which sets it reimbursements rates higher then Medicaid and higher then many countries that have single payer themselves. Though low enough that some doctors prefer the less difficult to negotiate private insurers that don't negotiate such low rates.

But there is nothing stopping America from running a single payer that depresses prices through tougher negotiation, or goes the opposite and lets cash flow to doctors, that only covers catastrophic and basic preventive things or tries to do what California is doing and let people just have a free buffet with no checks and balances(don't do it that way).

Either way, by all accounts over the long-term settling on one unified system that umbrellas the whole country(be it single payer or some other system) is much more cost efficient then the nightmare of competing bureaucracies America currently has.
Posted by bonhoeffer45
Member since Jul 2016
4367 posts
Posted on 7/3/17 at 7:34 pm to
quote:

Wow! Just wow!

Lucky indeed . . .

You could always travel as a medical tourist to Mexico or Cuba.



Are you now on record lobbying for a return to the rescission era of insurance in America? I knew you were cold hearted but not that much.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135444 posts
Posted on 7/3/17 at 7:34 pm to
quote:

Are much more a feature of Obamacare than the old system.
In the old system one chose between either a high monthly payment plan, or an inexpensive but high deductible plan. The ACA offers the worst of both worlds.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135444 posts
Posted on 7/3/17 at 7:35 pm to
quote:

Are you now on record lobbying for a return to the rescission era of insurance in America?
I am for the broadest array of personal choices possible
quote:

I knew you were cold
You know very little about me
Posted by SouthernHog
Arkansas
Member since Jul 2016
6916 posts
Posted on 7/3/17 at 7:36 pm to
quote:

am for single payer, free to poors,cheap to most.



I'm sure you are until you have to wait a year for an appointment.
Posted by bonhoeffer45
Member since Jul 2016
4367 posts
Posted on 7/3/17 at 7:38 pm to
quote:

Premium is closer to a cable bill than a mortgage payment?



Ok, me to. But you have to realize there are no free rides. How is this afforded to you? How does this become a reality? If a unit of healthcare costs X amount and Y amount of people consume it on average, actuaries have to price their products accordingly. When the price of healthcare rises, those premiums go up. Or the cost gets shifted in the form of higher deductibles or less coverage. You can save a lot of money in premiums if we don't cover cancer treatment, heart attacks, ER care, and a slew of the other most cost prohibitive care.

quote:

Are much more a feature of Obamacare than the old system.



Yes and no. As i showed that trend was already ongoing. Especially in the employer sphere. Though yes in that both the left and even more prominently on the right(see AHCA) have(I think wrongly) viewed higher deductibles as a feature, not a bug.
Posted by bonhoeffer45
Member since Jul 2016
4367 posts
Posted on 7/3/17 at 7:40 pm to
quote:

I am for the broadest array of personal choices possible



Sounds great in theory, but if you are a person that is 60 years of age with pre-existing conditions and a moderate salary, your realistic choices, in, say, Rand Paul's world is pretty much non-existent financially.

Which is where the rhetoric hits the pavement of reality and crashes and burns.
Posted by Bestbank Tiger
Premium Member
Member since Jan 2005
79068 posts
Posted on 7/3/17 at 7:41 pm to
quote:

In the old system one chose between either a high monthly payment plan, or an inexpensive but high deductible plan. The ACA offers the worst of both worlds.



Yep.

Plus if you got a cheap, high deductible plan you could get a supplement from AFLAC that would give you a lump sum cash payment in the event of a critical illness or injury.

Worst case scenario would be torn ACL or something along those lines. Then you run up a high bill short of the deductible. But even then you're coming out ahead, because while you pay that off, you're paying a low premium instead of trying to pay it off while shelling out hundreds of dollars for insurance.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135444 posts
Posted on 7/3/17 at 7:43 pm to
quote:

Though low enough that some doctors prefer the less difficult to negotiate private insurers that don't negotiate such low rates.
You under the foolish impression that medicare negotiates? Medicare negotiates nothing. You additionally seem to assume "tougher negotiating" private insurers demand fees on par with or lower than medicare. There is no such animal.

You also seem to assume Part B costs/payments to be a major problem by comparison to foreign medical reimbursements when they are actually as low or lower. Part A payments are far far far higher.
Posted by Foy
Member since Nov 2009
4554 posts
Posted on 7/3/17 at 7:47 pm to
quote:

Hey now, don't forget his free mammogram!



I would bet Obama is older than you and in much better shape than you. Just a guess.
Posted by Bestbank Tiger
Premium Member
Member since Jan 2005
79068 posts
Posted on 7/3/17 at 7:48 pm to
quote:

You under the foolish impression that medicare negotiates? Medicare negotiates nothing. You additionally seem to assume "tougher negotiating" private insurers demand fees on par with or lower than medicare. There is no such animal.

You also seem to assume Part B costs/payments to be a major problem by comparison to foreign medical reimbursements when they are actually as low or lower. Part A payments are far far far higher.


Also, Medicare "works" because everyone with an income pays for it but most people can't enroll. What outsiders are going to pay for all 310 million of us?
Posted by pvilleguru
Member since Jun 2009
60453 posts
Posted on 7/3/17 at 7:49 pm to
I figure you either have to tackle health insurance or the high cost health care.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135444 posts
Posted on 7/3/17 at 7:51 pm to
quote:

Sounds great in theory, but if you are a person that is 60 years of age
bullshite!

Life is full of choices. Some folks invest with Madoff. Some folks drive drunk. Some folks drop their insurance. Stupid happens. Being stupid at one's own expense is a personal right.

For every exceedingly rare exception to the above, there is an easy coverage exception solution to compensate for it
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