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re: Pentagon formally releases 3 Navy videos showing "unidentified aerial phenomena"
Posted on 4/27/20 at 9:37 pm to beerJeep
Posted on 4/27/20 at 9:37 pm to beerJeep
quote:
Go back 500 years ago. Fly around in a jet.
You just performed a miracle to the people that saw you.
Which is EXACTLY why believing miracles from ancient religious texts today is so silly. True miracles defy the laws of the physical universe. Everything observed by humans deemed a miracle is likely either a hoax or simply an observation we don’t understand yet. Defying physics (a miracle) is by definition always the LEAST likely possibility, and as far as we know has never occurred anywhere in the universe because the universe operates within physical boundaries.
This post was edited on 4/27/20 at 9:39 pm
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Posted on 4/27/20 at 9:37 pm to beerJeep
quote:
don’t either. Life is natural. To believe we are it is asinine.
Since life is natural, one can infer life exist elsewhere. If life exist elsewhere, why wouldn’t it be intelligent?
If we are, why not them?
Eh intelligence may not be evolutionarily beneficial in all environments. There is life here on earth that lacks intelligence. What if life developed in a location where resources were so abundant, competition was so lacking, and conditions so optimal there was no selective pressure to develop intelligence? It could be just a bunch of ameboid type things in perpetuity. What if the genes going into intelligence were too costly and it was actually selected against?
There’s probably life somewhere else in the universe but the unique characteristic of intelligence is another compounded variable.
Posted on 4/27/20 at 9:40 pm to AMS
quote:
From their perspective it would be a miracle. That doesnt make it a miracle. It’s physics, they just didnt understand it. When you’re 2 and your parent plays peek-a-boo, the parent isnt miraculously popping in and out of existence, the child just doesnt understand object permanence.
Exactly
Subjectively miraculous events occur all the time. A true miracle, as far as we know, has literally never occurred BEAUSE IT CANT.
Posted on 4/27/20 at 9:41 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
as far as we know,
Posted on 4/27/20 at 9:43 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
This implies physics fundamentally changes based on understanding.
No, not anymore than you might be implying that our understanding cannot ever be shaped by misperception of physical phenomena.
...what? Of course that happens. That’s my point lmao. Just because you have a false understanding of a mispercieved phenomena doesnt mean the phenomena defies physics. You just dont understand the phenomena.
Physics =/= our understanding of physics is exactly my point. You cant defy physics. You can just misunderstand what you saw.
Posted on 4/27/20 at 9:43 pm to AMS
quote:
Eh intelligence may not be evolutionarily beneficial in all environments. There is life here on earth that lacks intelligence. What if life developed in a location where resources were so abundant, competition was so lacking, and conditions so optimal there was no selective pressure to develop intelligence? It could be just a bunch of ameboid type things in perpetuity. What if the genes going into intelligence were too costly and it was actually selected against?
It isn’t an either or. Both exist.
quote:
There’s probably life somewhere else in the universe but the unique characteristic of intelligence is another compounded variable.
The universe is big enough. Intelligent life is out there.
Posted on 4/27/20 at 9:44 pm to AMS
You’ve just illustrated my point of semantics.
My point was never that you were incorrect, of course.
My point was never that you were incorrect, of course.
This post was edited on 4/27/20 at 9:46 pm
Posted on 4/27/20 at 9:47 pm to Roger Klarvin
The definition of a miracle yes.
Posted on 4/27/20 at 9:49 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
What if we aren't special, though? I don't even believe we (the current global human condition) were the first civilization of Earth.
Posted on 4/27/20 at 10:07 pm to ThinePreparedAni
quote:
Yes
Dr Michael Masters has a book and vids out there (he is professor of biological anthropology) and make a pretty compelling argument based on anatomic changes of how we would appear in the future and how we could study more primitive versions of ourselves (time travel).
This post was edited on 4/27 at 8:57 pm
It might not even be craft from the far future but one not many years away. The tech we are seeing causes some kind of rift and they become visible in our time for a little while.
Posted on 4/27/20 at 10:18 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:No chance.
We are the only advanced sentient species that exists in this universe
quote:It's comprehensible.
The amount of improbable evolutionary hurdles that life had to pass through to get to humanity is beyond comprehension
quote:You are assuming that all of those things had to happen just so. That is not at all a valid assumption.
Hundreds of millions of things with 0.0000001% chance of happening happened to get to where we are
You might also be underestimating how many chances at intelligent life there might be. There are at least 100 billion galaxies, each with 10s or 100s of billions of stars. That's roughly 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars.
We don't know how many of those stars have planets, but we find more and more planets all the time. Also, we have so far studied only ONE star up close, and it has AT LEAST 8 planets! Given that, it seems likely that most stars probably have at least ONE planet. So let's estimate roughly 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 planets.
Of the EIGHT planets that we've studied relatively closely, one of them is squarely in the habitable zone, and another is pretty damned close, too. It seems reasonable that 1 in 10 planets are in the habitable zone of their stars, but let's go with only 1 in 100. That's roughly 100,000,000,000,000,000,000 planets that are the right temperature.
It seems reasonable that only rocky planets could develop intelligent life, and of the ones we've studied relatively closely, half are rocky. Let's go with 1 in 10 to be conservative. We are left with 10,000,000,000,000,000,000 planets that are the right temperature and rocky.
Water seems to be a necessity, and it seems to be pretty common. Comets, Mars, and many moons in our own solar system have water. But again, let's be conservative and assume that only 1 in 1,000 planets has enough water to sustain life. We are left with 10,000,000,000,000,000 planets that are rocky, have water, and are the right temperature.
Aside from those things, I'm not sure if we know for sure what exactly is required for life. Must it be carbon based? We think Earth's atmosphere used to be mostly carbon dioxide like Mars and Venus, and the evolution of life changed the atmosphere along with it. Assuming this to be the case, atmospheres heavy in carbon dioxide seem to be pretty common. But to be conservative again, let's call it 1 in 1,000 might be just right. We are left with 10,000,000,000,000 planets that are rocky, have water, are the right temperature, and have atmospheres conducive to life.
Maybe a lot of those planets revolve around stars that aren't the right size. Some estimates say that 10% of stars are similar to our sun, but again let's be conservative and go with 1 in 100. We are left with 100,000,000,000 planets that are rocky, have water, are the right temperature, have atmospheres conducive to life, and revolve around sun-like stars.
Who knows what else is necessary? Who knows just how rare any form of life is? We could throw out a number like 1 in a billion, even under all these perfect conditions, and we'd still have at least 100 planets with life. But if we find that life has ever existed on Mars, or if there is life on Europa, then we would conclude that life is VERY common, and there would be billions of planets with life, trillions if we count those without perfect conditions like Europa.
Once there is life, how common is intelligence? Sentience? We know that apes, dolphins, and octopuses are intelligent. Are they sentient? Is it far-fetched to think that in a billion years, the descendants of octopuses will be sentient? That they will be able to build things? Share knowledge? Seems pretty possible, if not likely.
The universe is big, and it's old. No matter how unlikely something may be, it has almost certainly happened more than once.
Posted on 4/27/20 at 10:54 pm to Korkstand
Well done! But you forgot the gigantic moon and the magnetic field thingy. Other than that, I’m on your side!
Posted on 4/28/20 at 12:07 am to Korkstand
Maybe my original post was too strong and dismissive.
The bigger issue is that I think it doesn't really matter in the end. The universe is too big, we will likely never be able to advance to the point of traversing significant portions of it, and if there are indeed sentient, intelligence life forms out there, the chances they are relatively close by are slim to none.
Also, another issue that makes it even more unlikely. Even if there is intelligent life and we HAD the technology to travel far enough to investigate many planets it, our "timelines" with these sentient species would have to relatively line up with each other.
What's that saying- humanity has been on earth for only a second on a 24 hour clock? There is no guarantee we would encounter intelligent life even if you were told beforehand that the planet you were going to either had, has, or will have sentient life eventually. . Evolution takes millions of years, hundreds of millions. It would be lucky to get to a planet where evolution has created sentient/intelligent life. Chances are- either they have long gone extinct or haven't existed yet on any given planet.
The bigger issue is that I think it doesn't really matter in the end. The universe is too big, we will likely never be able to advance to the point of traversing significant portions of it, and if there are indeed sentient, intelligence life forms out there, the chances they are relatively close by are slim to none.
Also, another issue that makes it even more unlikely. Even if there is intelligent life and we HAD the technology to travel far enough to investigate many planets it, our "timelines" with these sentient species would have to relatively line up with each other.
What's that saying- humanity has been on earth for only a second on a 24 hour clock? There is no guarantee we would encounter intelligent life even if you were told beforehand that the planet you were going to either had, has, or will have sentient life eventually. . Evolution takes millions of years, hundreds of millions. It would be lucky to get to a planet where evolution has created sentient/intelligent life. Chances are- either they have long gone extinct or haven't existed yet on any given planet.
Posted on 4/28/20 at 12:09 am to ThinePreparedAni
Occam's razor-- what is less convoluted: That actual extraterrestrial high tech, presumably interstellar capable aliens visit Earth this way and are detectable by our laughable technology-- or...
this is a psy-op/some form of social engineering, and a complete fabrication? Disregard what sounds more fantastic to you, disregard what excites you, and what you want to believe-- what is more likely to be true?
Social engineering aliens is not new. You may have heard of the "War of the Worlds" radio hoax. This was 1938. Fun fact-- the Executive producer of the problem was Davidson Taylor, who:
Source: LINK
Let that detonate in your brain for a good minute.
this is a psy-op/some form of social engineering, and a complete fabrication? Disregard what sounds more fantastic to you, disregard what excites you, and what you want to believe-- what is more likely to be true?
Social engineering aliens is not new. You may have heard of the "War of the Worlds" radio hoax. This was 1938. Fun fact-- the Executive producer of the problem was Davidson Taylor, who:
quote:
During World War II, Mr. Taylor was chief of radio for the psychological warfare division of Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower's Allied command in Europe.
Source: LINK
Let that detonate in your brain for a good minute.
Posted on 4/28/20 at 12:54 am to ThinePreparedAni
I definitely believe in aliens. Too many planets out there for me to believe that we are unique.
The shite we see here on earth, I don't believe comes from other planets though. If they cane from light years away, I believe they'd make legit contact.
I believe they are from a parallel earth. I don't think they're crossing over or anything, I believe that we're only catching glimpses every now and then. Maybe on their side, they see glimpses of some blurry looking metal carriages roaming around on the ground.. and they don't know wtf they are.
The shite we see here on earth, I don't believe comes from other planets though. If they cane from light years away, I believe they'd make legit contact.
I believe they are from a parallel earth. I don't think they're crossing over or anything, I believe that we're only catching glimpses every now and then. Maybe on their side, they see glimpses of some blurry looking metal carriages roaming around on the ground.. and they don't know wtf they are.
This post was edited on 4/28/20 at 12:57 am
Posted on 4/28/20 at 1:44 am to MississippiLSUfan
quote:Well, most of the planets in the solar system have a magnetic field. Mars used to. Maybe we can divide by 10 again.
Well done! But you forgot the gigantic moon and the magnetic field thingy. Other than that, I’m on your side!
And the moon thing, eh, it was supposedly important because it keeps things in flux on Earth, right? Tidal forces. Europa seems promising for life because it experiences similar forces due to Jupiter. Divide by another 100?
I've already cut it down to 1 in 100,000,000,000 planets with good conditions for life, basically 1 per galaxy. Do I need to divide some more? It's just a thought experiment!
Posted on 4/28/20 at 1:55 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
Intelligent life exists somewhere out there. Its just Likely too far away for us to ever find each other. Its almost mathematically impossible to not exist somewhere.
Posted on 4/28/20 at 2:00 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
The bigger issue is that I think it doesn't really matter in the end. The universe is too big, we will likely never be able to advance to the point of traversing significant portions of it, and if there are indeed sentient, intelligence life forms out there, the chances they are relatively close by are slim to none.
Also, another issue that makes it even more unlikely. Even if there is intelligent life and we HAD the technology to travel far enough to investigate many planets it, our "timelines" with these sentient species would have to relatively line up with each other.
What's that saying- humanity has been on earth for only a second on a 24 hour clock? There is no guarantee we would encounter intelligent life even if you were told beforehand that the planet you were going to either had, has, or will have sentient life eventually. . Evolution takes millions of years, hundreds of millions. It would be lucky to get to a planet where evolution has created sentient/intelligent life. Chances are- either they have long gone extinct or haven't existed yet on any given planet.
I pretty much agree. Unless true AI is possible (which I have my doubts about), or if we figure out how to upload our consciousness into a computer. If that happens, time would be almost meaningless. Even if faster than light travel is impossible, it wouldn't matter because we could exist forever. Maybe meatsacks from different planets will never meet, but our digital consciousnesses might.
Or maybe we build colony ships that can sustain a population indefinitely. Then the entire species can travel the galaxy for millions of years, and one day find others.
There are lots of ways it could happen. It could matter if there is other life out there.
Posted on 4/28/20 at 2:02 am to Korkstand
I’m far more interested in finding out more about our own planet and its history than space, mainly because it’s way more feasible and we have the tech
I personally believe there will be some sort of bombshell discovery regarding something about earth, either its physical history or the history of life on it or the history of human life on it, that will be discovered in my lifetime
I personally believe there will be some sort of bombshell discovery regarding something about earth, either its physical history or the history of life on it or the history of human life on it, that will be discovered in my lifetime
Posted on 4/28/20 at 2:13 am to ThinePreparedAni
I have seen a UFO and possible a mother ship that is hidden above a strange looking cloud in St. Louis. The UFO a slow moving object that was orange and had black lining around it. Then it changed into an egg shape. It went into a sequence back and forth as a perfect circle to an egg shape in a blink of an eye. It was low and I was glued to it and then went slowly into this strange looking cloud that was long and narrow. I did contact one website about it and wanted me to come to california to talk about it. I said no thanks. Cloud is use to cover up the object. I am serious and even the TV program about UFOs talked about that. When I saw it it was at night time soon after I got off work around 3:45 in the Morning. The one hiding in the cloud was assume to be a cigar shaped UFO and probably was the mothership.
This post was edited on 4/28/20 at 2:17 am
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