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Message
re: Official US/Israel vs Iran war thread
Posted on 5/23/26 at 9:45 pm to wfallstiger
Posted on 5/23/26 at 9:45 pm to wfallstiger
quote:
Correct We will never return as the surrounding circumstances will never present, again ---- Gulf States, Hebrew State, No Nothing Europe....Iranian proxies neutralized. Why is beyond my limited comprehension and I doubt seriously any explanation will be satisfactory Almost 5 decades of their Imperialistic bloodlust and seemingly DJT blinks....
Iran was on their heels and then Trump foolishly gave in to a ceasefire, likely worried about the initial stock and oil market pressures. He followed that up with empty threats that have only served to embolden Iran. Iran is likely to be in a materially stronger position post-war than not, especially since their neighbors (with limited exception of the UAE) refused to take their own military action and Iran can wage asymmetrical warfare in the Strait to force future capitulation.
0
Posted on 5/23/26 at 9:46 pm to wfallstiger
And what about the messages directly to the Persian people weeks ago?
Posted on 5/23/26 at 9:47 pm to Zachary
quote:
What happened to "nothing short of total surrender"?
Trump chickened out is what happened. Ive never seen someone snatch defeat from the jaws of victory quite like he has in this ordeal.
This post was edited on 5/23/26 at 9:48 pm
Posted on 5/23/26 at 9:50 pm to Zachary
And the members of our Armed Forces killed and wounded .....
Posted on 5/23/26 at 9:55 pm to wfallstiger
Great job Trump. Got our guys killed, spent a lot of munitions, then bitched out and accomplished nothing. fricking idiot.
Posted on 5/23/26 at 10:05 pm to Diego Ricardo
Nukes aren't some magic win button. How specifically can Israel nuke Iran to finish them off?
Posted on 5/23/26 at 10:10 pm to tigervet4
quote:
Nukes aren't some magic win button. How specifically can Israel nuke Iran to finish them off?
Correct, you'll kill thousands of innocent people while the real criminals hide in their fortified bunkers underground. Also, nobody is going to use a nuke in this situation as the whole world will turn against whatever actor uses it. That would be the end of Israel.
This post was edited on 5/23/26 at 10:27 pm
Posted on 5/23/26 at 10:26 pm to tigervet4
quote:
Nukes aren't some magic win button.
No, but stealth aircraft practically are when your enemies' air defenses are completely eliminated.
Between our B-2s, F-22s, F-35s, we could be choosy over time and use our vast Intel apparatuses between us and Israel to stake out and identify individual targets down to the human level. No one else on earth has the satellite capabilities we have, no one else on earth has the on-the-ground capabilities of Mossad.
Wait for one or more important targets to present themselves and sneak an aircraft in for a precision strike. Do this over and over throughout months if that's what it takes. Enough time and opportunities and you've put the fear of Allah into them to even step outside, let alone gather to conduct warfare.
Once you have them nice and scared of even looking out a window, you have all the leverage you need. We'll pull back to a safe distance and let you be if you give in to our demands. Or else we continue lingering no matter how long it takes. You want to be looking over your shoulder for the rest of your life?
Posted on 5/23/26 at 10:37 pm to RazorBroncs
Non-paywalled Axios article about what's in the deal- Barak Ravid has the best sources around. I don't like the deal at all- we give up the leverage of the blockade while we negotiate nukes with no guarantees (or even strong possibility) they will ever agree to anything. So they get billions of dollars for just agreeing to talk.
LINK
The agreement the U.S. and Iran are close to signing involves a 60-day ceasefire extension during which the Strait of Hormuz would be reopened, Iran would be able to freely sell oil, and negotiations would be held on curbing Iran's nuclear program, according to a U.S. official.
Why it matters: The deal would avoid an escalation of the war and decrease the pressure on the global oil supply. However, it's unclear whether it will lead to a lasting peace agreement that also addresses President Trump's nuclear demands.
State of play: Both Trump and the mediators have indicated the deal could be announced on Sunday, though it has not been finalized and could still fall apart.
The U.S. official provided a detailed outline of the draft as it stands, much of which was verified by other sources close to the talks.
Those details have not been confirmed by the Iranian side, though Tehran has also indicated a deal is getting close.
What's in the deal
Both sides would sign a memorandum of understanding (MOU) that would last 60 days and could be extended by mutual consent.
During the 60-day period, the Strait of Hormuz would be open with no tolls and Iran would agree to clear the mines it deployed in the strait to let ships pass freely.
In exchange, the U.S. would lift its blockade on Iranian ports and issue some sanctions waivers to allow Iran to sell oil freely.
The U.S. official acknowledged that would be a boon to Iran's economy, but said it would also give significant relief to the global oil market.
The U.S. official said the faster the Iranians clear the mines and let shipping resume, the faster the blockade will be lifted.
The official said Trump's key principle in the agreement is "relief for performance."
Iran wanted funds unfrozen immediately and permanent sanctions relief, but the U.S. side said that would only happen after tangible concessions were made, according to the official.
Nuclear issues still to be negotiated
The draft MOU includes commitments from Iran to never pursue nuclear weapons and to negotiate over a suspension of its uranium enrichment program and the removal of its stockpile of highly enriched uranium, the U.S. official said.
According to two sources with knowledge, Iran gave the U.S. through the mediators verbal commitments about the scope of the concessions it's willing to make on suspending enrichment and giving up the nuclear material.
The U.S. would agree to negotiate over lifting sanctions and unfreezing Iranian funds during the 60-day period — though those steps would only be implemented as part of a final agreement that is verifiably implemented.
U.S. forces that were mobilized in recent months would stay in the region during the 60-day period and only withdraw if a final deal is reached.
The intrigue: The draft MOU also makes clear that the war between Israel and Hezbollah in Lebanon would end.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu expressed concern about that condition during a phone call with Trump on Saturday, an Israeli official said. He also expressed concerns about other aspects of the deal, but made his case in a respectful and deferential way, a U.S. official said.
The U.S. official said it would not be a "one-sided ceasefire" and if Hezbollah tried to rearm or instigate attacks, Israel would be allowed to take action to prevent it. "If Hezbollah behaves, Israel will behave."
"Bibi has his domestic considerations, but Trump has the interests of the U.S. and the global economy to think about," the U.S. official said, referring to Netanyahu by his nickname.
How it happened
President Trump sounded out several Arab and Muslim leaders about the deal in a conference call on Saturday, and all said they support it, three sources familiar with the call said.
That included the UAE's hawkish president, Mohammed bin Zayed, according to the U.S. official. Also on the call were the leaders of Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Egypt, Turkey and Pakistan, all of which have been involved in the mediation efforts.
The Pakistanis have been the primary mediator, led by Field Marshal Asim Munir, who was in Tehran on Friday and Saturday in an effort to get the deal across the line.
Trump has been wavering in recent days between pushing forward with the deal and launching a massive wave of strikes against Iran. As of Saturday evening, he was leaning toward a diplomatic solution.
What to watch: The White House hopes the final differences will be resolved in the coming hours and that a deal will be announced on Sunday, the U.S. official said.
The official said it's possible the deal won't even last the full 60 days if the U.S. believes Iran is not serious about nuclear negotiations. On the other hand, the U.S. believes Iran's economic crunch provides an incentive to reach a full deal to remove sanctions and unfreeze its cash.
"It will be interesting to see how far Iran will be truly willing to go, but if they are capable of and want to change their trajectory, this next phase will force them to make some critical decisions on what they want to be as a country," the U.S. official said.
If Trump's demands regarding the Iranian nuclear program are met, the president is ready to go to great lengths to reset relations with Iran and give them the opportunity to pursue their full economic potential, which Trump thinks is "huge," his advisers say.
LINK
The agreement the U.S. and Iran are close to signing involves a 60-day ceasefire extension during which the Strait of Hormuz would be reopened, Iran would be able to freely sell oil, and negotiations would be held on curbing Iran's nuclear program, according to a U.S. official.
Why it matters: The deal would avoid an escalation of the war and decrease the pressure on the global oil supply. However, it's unclear whether it will lead to a lasting peace agreement that also addresses President Trump's nuclear demands.
State of play: Both Trump and the mediators have indicated the deal could be announced on Sunday, though it has not been finalized and could still fall apart.
The U.S. official provided a detailed outline of the draft as it stands, much of which was verified by other sources close to the talks.
Those details have not been confirmed by the Iranian side, though Tehran has also indicated a deal is getting close.
What's in the deal
Both sides would sign a memorandum of understanding (MOU) that would last 60 days and could be extended by mutual consent.
During the 60-day period, the Strait of Hormuz would be open with no tolls and Iran would agree to clear the mines it deployed in the strait to let ships pass freely.
In exchange, the U.S. would lift its blockade on Iranian ports and issue some sanctions waivers to allow Iran to sell oil freely.
The U.S. official acknowledged that would be a boon to Iran's economy, but said it would also give significant relief to the global oil market.
The U.S. official said the faster the Iranians clear the mines and let shipping resume, the faster the blockade will be lifted.
The official said Trump's key principle in the agreement is "relief for performance."
Iran wanted funds unfrozen immediately and permanent sanctions relief, but the U.S. side said that would only happen after tangible concessions were made, according to the official.
Nuclear issues still to be negotiated
The draft MOU includes commitments from Iran to never pursue nuclear weapons and to negotiate over a suspension of its uranium enrichment program and the removal of its stockpile of highly enriched uranium, the U.S. official said.
According to two sources with knowledge, Iran gave the U.S. through the mediators verbal commitments about the scope of the concessions it's willing to make on suspending enrichment and giving up the nuclear material.
The U.S. would agree to negotiate over lifting sanctions and unfreezing Iranian funds during the 60-day period — though those steps would only be implemented as part of a final agreement that is verifiably implemented.
U.S. forces that were mobilized in recent months would stay in the region during the 60-day period and only withdraw if a final deal is reached.
The intrigue: The draft MOU also makes clear that the war between Israel and Hezbollah in Lebanon would end.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu expressed concern about that condition during a phone call with Trump on Saturday, an Israeli official said. He also expressed concerns about other aspects of the deal, but made his case in a respectful and deferential way, a U.S. official said.
The U.S. official said it would not be a "one-sided ceasefire" and if Hezbollah tried to rearm or instigate attacks, Israel would be allowed to take action to prevent it. "If Hezbollah behaves, Israel will behave."
"Bibi has his domestic considerations, but Trump has the interests of the U.S. and the global economy to think about," the U.S. official said, referring to Netanyahu by his nickname.
How it happened
President Trump sounded out several Arab and Muslim leaders about the deal in a conference call on Saturday, and all said they support it, three sources familiar with the call said.
That included the UAE's hawkish president, Mohammed bin Zayed, according to the U.S. official. Also on the call were the leaders of Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Egypt, Turkey and Pakistan, all of which have been involved in the mediation efforts.
The Pakistanis have been the primary mediator, led by Field Marshal Asim Munir, who was in Tehran on Friday and Saturday in an effort to get the deal across the line.
Trump has been wavering in recent days between pushing forward with the deal and launching a massive wave of strikes against Iran. As of Saturday evening, he was leaning toward a diplomatic solution.
What to watch: The White House hopes the final differences will be resolved in the coming hours and that a deal will be announced on Sunday, the U.S. official said.
The official said it's possible the deal won't even last the full 60 days if the U.S. believes Iran is not serious about nuclear negotiations. On the other hand, the U.S. believes Iran's economic crunch provides an incentive to reach a full deal to remove sanctions and unfreeze its cash.
"It will be interesting to see how far Iran will be truly willing to go, but if they are capable of and want to change their trajectory, this next phase will force them to make some critical decisions on what they want to be as a country," the U.S. official said.
If Trump's demands regarding the Iranian nuclear program are met, the president is ready to go to great lengths to reset relations with Iran and give them the opportunity to pursue their full economic potential, which Trump thinks is "huge," his advisers say.
Posted on 5/23/26 at 10:38 pm to TroutGuy
quote:
I guess they could say that diluting it met that condition, but, like I said, they offered the exact same thing before the war and at several points in negotiations during the war. We rejected it every time, so if we suddenly accept it then it will be hard to spin it as a victory.
This is true, and I agree with your last point. But spin they will.
Posted on 5/23/26 at 10:53 pm to RazorBroncs
quote:
Between our B-2s, F-22s, F-35s, we could be choosy over time and use our vast Intel apparatuses between us and Israel to stake out and identify individual targets down to the human level. No one else on earth has the satellite capabilities we have, no one else on earth has the on-the-ground capabilities of Mossad.
Wait for one or more important targets to present themselves and sneak an aircraft in for a precision strike.
That is what we were doing before the ceasefire, just without nukes. You just added the word nuke to it like a magic win button. If they are precision strikes why the hell would it need to be nukes? You need to get a hold of yourself.
Posted on 5/23/26 at 11:11 pm to tigervet4
I'm not the one that said anything about nukes.
May want to check who you're replying to again
Posted on 5/23/26 at 11:46 pm to RazorBroncs
Well this is floating out there again. Don't know why Iran would release news that contradicts a deal has been made that is very beneficial for them. Just kind of odd and stinks as much as the supposed deal that is on the table. Only thing I can think of is that this is coping from the Iranian hardliners driving Far's to push that out there.
Loading Twitter/X Embed...
If tweet fails to load, click here. quote:
BREAKING: Iran's Fars News releases a statement following President Trump's post stating a US-Iran deal would be announced "shortly" earlier today:
"It should be noted that American officials have acknowledged in multiple messages to Iran that Trump's posts are primarily for promotional purposes and media consumption within the US, and they have recommended that no attention be paid to these statements," Fars News says
This post was edited on 5/23/26 at 11:48 pm
Posted on 5/23/26 at 11:49 pm to RazorBroncs
Just my two cents, but as soon as you took out their decades long leader to start this thing there is only one wait can end. If you don’t have the stones for the end you can’t do the beginning strike.
You don’t leave the same group in charge who were just taught a valuable lessons that ramping up their deference is the only way they can proceed.
You don’t leave the same group in charge who were just taught a valuable lessons that ramping up their deference is the only way they can proceed.
This post was edited on 5/23/26 at 11:50 pm
Posted on 5/24/26 at 12:06 am to Tigerstark
So.............. in six months, it will be as if nothing happened to Iran, except the past and future slaughter of their citizens. Supplying worldwide terrorism, building an extremely large missile arsenal, and working on a nuclear weapon. And probably charging tolls to get out of the gulf. Got it.
There's no way the USA will ever put this large a force in the ME again without a war being declared. This was the only chance to get rid of this regime.
There's no way the USA will ever put this large a force in the ME again without a war being declared. This was the only chance to get rid of this regime.
Posted on 5/24/26 at 12:07 am to BayouBengal51
Makes we wonder if we’re still negotiating with the wrong people and then in a day or two the IRGC will come out and say pay no attention to this shite
Posted on 5/24/26 at 12:17 am to jeffsdad
My worries are that our kids will be the ones who suffer for this backing down and negotiating with these shitty zealots.
I hope I'm wrong, but there's no doubt if the IRGC hardliners are allowed to keep control of the vast oil resources under Iran for long enough they'll use that profit for attaining nuclear weapons and bringing about their "hidden Imam" or whatever it's called. It's literally a tenant of their religion to bring about end times in addition to killing all non-believers or converting them beforehand.
Someone will have to deal with a nuclear threat or dirty bomb from Iran in the future, that much is almost certain. It becomes a matter of how much we're collectively willing to do about it now.
Posted on 5/24/26 at 12:53 am to TroutGuy
This deal is fricking dogshit. We started this, we have to end it. Trump is a pussy if he signs this shite.
Iran will never actually follow through and Trump has proven over and over again that he makes threats he won’t back up. Instead, Iran will pretend to negotiate to buy themselves two more weeks and Trump takes it every time.
Iran will never actually follow through and Trump has proven over and over again that he makes threats he won’t back up. Instead, Iran will pretend to negotiate to buy themselves two more weeks and Trump takes it every time.
Posted on 5/24/26 at 1:59 am to TigersSEC2010
Posted on 5/24/26 at 2:12 am to jeffsdad
quote:
There's no way the USA will ever put this large a force in the ME again without a war being declared. This was the only chance to get rid of this regime.
Tough lessons were learned. Without boots on the ground:
Iran will always have the ability to shut down the Strait, no matter the regime. Not complete control but shutting it down is all the control they need.
Regime change is not possible from the outside only.
Nuclear weapon prevention is a messy business and can’t be guaranteed remotely.
So until we get some robot combat troops this is the reality of our abilities.
Iran is somewhat unique but this would be true elsewhere as well.
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