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Started By
Message
re: National shelter in place due to the vinyl chloride spill in OH?
Posted on 2/13/23 at 9:23 am to Meauxjeaux
Posted on 2/13/23 at 9:23 am to Meauxjeaux
quote:
Pipelines don’t derail.
No but they ruin rare frog habitats
This post was edited on 2/13/23 at 9:24 am
2
Posted on 2/13/23 at 9:24 am to stout
Reading a little bit more about the combustion of vinyl chloride, phosgene is a minor combustion byproduct. The problem with phosgene it is very dangerous. Just 2 ppm and you are in immediate danger.
Posted on 2/13/23 at 9:26 am to stout
quote:quote:
Pipelines don’t derail.
No but they ruin rare frog habitats
But they do build excellent habitats for endangered species gopher tortoises and indigo snakes. They love pipeline right of ways.
Posted on 2/13/23 at 9:28 am to stout
Even the HCL that is produced from a PVC fire dissipates quickly. I worked as a ChemE at Westlake, formerly GGC, and we had to go through VCM training. The thing is VCM gets released into the atmosphere quite a bit, albeit in small amounts, sometimes large amounts, with no immediate health effects. They made us wear monitors and I used to go inspect the reactors and you could smell the residual VCM in the chunks of PVC that grew on the baffles and agitators.
This post was edited on 2/13/23 at 9:31 am
Posted on 2/13/23 at 9:28 am to GumboPot
quote:
Reading a little bit more about the combustion of vinyl chloride, phosgene is a minor combustion byproduct. The problem with phosgene it is very dangerous. Just 2 ppm and you are in immediate danger.
NY Post: Animals falling sick, dying near hellish Ohio train derailment site
quote:
Animals are falling sick and dying near the site of a hellish Ohio train derailment last Friday which released toxic chemicals into the air, according to reports — sparking fears of the potential health impacts the crash could have on humans.
Posted on 2/13/23 at 9:30 am to Doctor Strangelove
quote:
I worked as a ChemE at Westlake
I figured there had to be a few people posting here that worked there and would know more about it.
Again, thanks for the info.
Posted on 2/13/23 at 9:39 am to stout
I haven’t kept up with the story, but it makes no sense to me as why they would set the tankers on fire. It is highly explosive but it would dissipate quickly if it were released into the atmosphere. Setting it on fire makes it exponentially more dangerous due to the HCL being formed.
Posted on 2/13/23 at 9:40 am to Doctor Strangelove
quote:
Setting it on fire makes it exponentially more dangerous due to the HCL being formed.
The rest of this thread has told us it's no big deal
Posted on 2/13/23 at 9:44 am to stout
I would much rather be exposed to a cloud of VCM than HCL. 
This post was edited on 2/13/23 at 9:44 am
Posted on 2/13/23 at 9:45 am to Doctor Strangelove
Even if it kills 1,000s of people you will never be able to prove it and they will cover it up, like they do every other chemical spill. Recent random blood test looking for this shite have found we are all walking chemical labs right now and our blood is full of this shite. Best part is the elite super health nut california vegans blood is just as contaminated as everyone else’s. This pure blood shite kids want to brag about us bullshite. There hasn’t been an American pure blood in 60 years.
The air is full of this shite
The air is full of this shite
Posted on 2/13/23 at 9:50 am to stout
quote:I had no idea she was pregnant now or anytime before....
yet we all know Rhianna is pregnant again.
But speaking of Rhianna, wasn't she once upon a time a pretty girl? She looked like hammered dog shite last night
Posted on 2/13/23 at 9:53 am to stout
From what I have read it can turn into a couple of different gas forms in the atmosphere, one of which was the gas used during WWI or WWII, so yes its some bad shite. People that say its just PVC pipe are way off when it comes to its liquid and gas forms.
Posted on 2/13/23 at 9:54 am to GumboPot
quote:
Reading a little bit more about the combustion of vinyl chloride, phosgene is a minor combustion byproduct. The problem with phosgene it is very dangerous. Just 2 ppm and you are in immediate danger.
I posted this in the other thread about the fire yesterday, re: phosgene:
Phosgene, while dangerous, is an extremely minor product of VCM combustion.
The VCM combustion product contains ~540x the IDLH concentration of hydrogen chloride gas and ~20x the IDLH concentration of phosgene.
In other words, if you’re exposed to the vapor cloud from the fire you will breathe enough hydrogen chloride to kill you long before you breathe enough phosgene to do the same.
Neither would be much of a hazard “100 miles away” as the vapor cloud would obviously dissipate by then. The real hazard would be exposure to hydrogen chloride gas immediately downwind of the fire, which is why I’m sure they evacuated the area before the burn-off.
Posted on 2/13/23 at 9:56 am to lostinbr
Posted on 2/13/23 at 10:04 am to lostinbr
quote:
I posted this in the other thread about the fire yesterday, re: phosgene:
Phosgene, while dangerous, is an extremely minor product of VCM combustion.
The VCM combustion product contains ~540x the IDLH concentration of hydrogen chloride gas and ~20x the IDLH concentration of phosgene.
In other words, if you’re exposed to the vapor cloud from the fire you will breathe enough hydrogen chloride to kill you long before you breathe enough phosgene to do the same.
Neither would be much of a hazard “100 miles away” as the vapor cloud would obviously dissipate by then. The real hazard would be exposure to hydrogen chloride gas immediately downwind of the fire, which is why I’m sure they evacuated the area before the burn-off.
What are your thoughts on residual issues as the cloud dissipates and is deposited into water and soil?
There has been concerning discussions around it bonding to water vapor and becoming a major water contamination issue.
Posted on 2/13/23 at 10:06 am to stout
quote:
You don't think a massive chemical spill of a deadly known carcinogen is a big deal?
I don't want to downplay the concern, but hear me out. This spill has already been modeled. The company and regulators already know the cost, both human and monetary. The government will give the media their talking points, the lawyers will get paid off, and nobody cares about the damn fish. You'll hear what they want you hear when they want you to hear it.
Posted on 2/13/23 at 10:08 am to Doctor Strangelove
quote:
I haven’t kept up with the story, but it makes no sense to me as why they would set the tankers on fire. It is highly explosive but it would dissipate quickly if it were released into the atmosphere. Setting it on fire makes it exponentially more dangerous due to the HCL being formed.
As I understand it, they had to bleed it off to avoid a BLEVE (boiling liquid expansion vapor explosion), which would have been way worse.
Since there were other cars smoldering in the area, it was probable safer to burn the VCM off in a somewhat controlled manner than risking accumulation of an explosive gas.
Posted on 2/13/23 at 10:10 am to Ingeniero
Even the trucks are dying!!
Posted on 2/13/23 at 10:47 am to stout
quote:
They are finding dead animals 100 miles away
damn, I passed a dead squirrel on the road this morning and I'm at least 1000 miles away. could have been from the chloride spill
Posted on 2/13/23 at 11:00 am to stout
quote:
I know nothing about the stuff
quote:
his stuff is going to destroy that OH town it happened in. Their water supply will never recover.
Never change!
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