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re: Lower and Middle Class America has declined over the past 50 years
Posted on 4/3/25 at 12:02 pm to tide06
Posted on 4/3/25 at 12:02 pm to tide06
quote:
Household discretionary spend adjusted for inflation peaked in 1980, just after the introduction of the globalist model we currently leverage and prior to the introduction of China to the WTO.
Since then discretionary household spend has declined to the lowest levels seen since the 1960s.
And the cost of goods, comparatively?
Could poor people afford luxury goods in the 60s like they do today?
Again, I'll try to find the "poor people owning luxury goods" picture we used to routinely post to counter posters like Rex
CNN article form the Obama years: Are you poor if you have a flat-screen TV?
quote:
Conservatives point to spending patterns, saying consumption is a better indicator of living standards than income. Using that metric, the nation's poor are living better than they have been in decades, enjoying many of the amenities that the middle class have.
"People are not as badly off as you think," said Aparna Mathur, resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, a right-leaning organization.
Liberals, however, counter by saying that while electronics and appliances have become more affordable, basic necessities such as child care, health care and transportation have not. These costs have left the poor
2025 MAGA = 2012 "Liberals"
0
Posted on 4/3/25 at 12:05 pm to SlowFlowPro
Ahh yes, the shitty choices just happen to coincide with the mass evacuation of their communities economic base. Detroit and small towns across the country would have turned into 3rd world shite holes regardless of what happened to their manufacturing base, is that your argument?
Posted on 4/3/25 at 12:10 pm to Robin Masters
quote:
Detroit and small towns across the country would have turned into 3rd world shite holes regardless of what happened to their manufacturing base, is that your argument?
Detroit is what it is because they turned out a shitty product and had (and still have) bloated costs thanks to the UAW. To what extent do you want to protect that? You want your tax dollars to prop that up?
Posted on 4/3/25 at 12:12 pm to Robin Masters
quote:
the shitty choices just happen to coincide with the mass evacuation of their communities economic base.
They were given the chance to adapt and many refused and held out that their overpaid factory jobs would come back. They did not.
quote:
Detroit and small towns across the country would have turned into 3rd world shite holes regardless of what happened to their manufacturing base, is that your argument?
No. But thank you for asking before you mis-stated it as a straw man.
Posted on 4/3/25 at 12:21 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:Except we've got that forced floor.
It removes the forced-floor of socialism
So one can explain a class structure in US society inclusive of poorer members. However, a milieu in which there is so much change at the upper spectral end, where 80%+ of US millionaires are new self generated money, the proportions of intergenerational poverty and lack of upward mobility for individuals out of poverty do not make intuitive sense.
Posted on 4/3/25 at 12:22 pm to texag7
quote:
What shoe is made overseas and costs $5 dollars. Nikes cost over $200 and are made by slaves
Those $200 shoes are only priced at that level because there are people willing to pay that price. A $200 Nike shoe is likely made with only $20-$40 worth of materials.
Posted on 4/3/25 at 12:24 pm to Robin Masters
quote:
Detroit and small towns across the country would have turned into 3rd world shite holes regardless of what happened to their manufacturing base, is that your argument?
They should have made better cars more efficiently.
Posted on 4/3/25 at 12:25 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Except we've got that forced floor.
Clearly we don't, if you look at the size and impact of the lowest class of the US compared to other developed countries that are more socialist (Europe is the best example.)
quote:
a milieu in which there is so much change at the upper spectral end, where 80%+ of US millionaires are new self generated money, the proportions of intergenerational poverty and lack of upward mobility for individuals out of poverty do not make intuitive sense.
That's where the lower class mindset/trash culture come into play.
For those removed from it, it doesn't make sense. However, the culture has been built, in may ways, to specifically reject the culture of the people, " the upper spectral end, where 80%+ of US millionaires are new self generated money", as you stated.
They reject education, they reject what we consider class, they reject the social norms and mores of "civilized" society. That's the point, as they're separating themselves intentionally from that class of people. A couple generations of economic malaise + bad decisions + promoting this culture and that's all it takes until it's institutional.
The REAL shocking thing is where the US ranks if you remove this population from the various international competitions (math, violent crime, literacy, etc.)
Posted on 4/3/25 at 12:25 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:I'm not a buyer of what you're selling there.
A solid chunk of our population has created a pathological lower class mindset/culture and all sorts of societal pathologies flow from that. Crime (especially violent crime), lack of education, lack of economic productivity, black market economic opportunities, etc. etc
Posted on 4/3/25 at 12:25 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
They were given the chance to adapt and many refused and held out that their overpaid factory jobs would come back. They did not.
So no, the catalyst was the elimination of the economic base and not a series of lifestyle choices they made, as you previously claimed. Your honesty is refreshing even if only made possible by the elimination of all other means of escape.
This post was edited on 4/3/25 at 12:27 pm
Posted on 4/3/25 at 12:29 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
I'm not a buyer of what you're selling there.
Then just look at where these pathologies are most concentrated.
I mean, marriage has even become a class signifier. This lower class mindset/culture does not value marriage or 2-parent households.
Posted on 4/3/25 at 12:30 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:ORLY?
Except we've got that forced floor.
Clearly we don't
Poverty level for a family of four in the US is $37K.
Median income in Italy is $24K.
Posted on 4/3/25 at 12:30 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Poverty level for a family of four in the US is $37K.
Median income in Italy is $24K.
Yeah we're rich.
Now go look up violent crime rates between the 2.
Posted on 4/3/25 at 12:34 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
concentrated. I mean, marriage has even become a class signifier. This lower class mindset/culture does not value marriage or 2-parent households.
Symptomatic of a culture which values cheap, copious and disposable. Not coincidentally, All values which can be instilled far more easily in a society which produces very little.
Posted on 4/3/25 at 12:39 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:So your contention is that violent crime and poverty is some sort of intergenerational genetic mindset. The characteristics are as immutable as an individual's melanocyte count?
Now go look up violent crime rates between the 2.
Posted on 4/3/25 at 12:46 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
That's where the lower class mindset/trash culture come into play. For those removed from it, it doesn't make sense. However, the culture has been built, in may ways, to specifically reject the culture of the people, " the upper spectral end, where 80%+ of US millionaires are new self generated money", as you stated. They reject education, they reject what we consider class, they reject the social norms and mores of "civilized" society. That's the point, as they're separating themselves intentionally from that class of people. A couple generations of economic malaise + bad decisions + promoting this culture and that's all it takes until it's institutional. The REAL shocking thing is where the US ranks if you remove this population from the various international competitions (math, violent crime, literacy, etc.)
Much of what you post is accurate and makes sense from an economic standpoint, as harsh as the message is to some folks. But … and correct me if I’m wrong and I will apologize if I’m wrong … it strikes me that you seem to have a contempt for the people who made up the old-school manufacturing base during the halcyon days because they didn’t make the decisions they should have made.
Posted on 4/3/25 at 12:49 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
I understand the changing landscape and shifted s few years ago to areas that would not be affected by outsourcing (or AI, which was the bigger worry).
You are a slap dick lawyer. You provide absolutely nothing to society.
Posted on 4/3/25 at 12:54 pm to dgnx6
quote:
You are a slap dick lawyer. You provide absolutely nothing to society.
The full extent of his attempts for legal resolution, based on this thread, would add up to “you should have made better choices”.
Posted on 4/3/25 at 12:57 pm to dgnx6
quote:
You are a slap dick lawyer. You provide absolutely nothing to society.
And your value is....Trump internet warrior?
Posted on 4/3/25 at 1:16 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
So your contention is that violent crime and poverty is some sort of intergenerational genetic mindset
Intergenerational mindset creates culture, and one of the pathologies of that culture over time, is violent crime.
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