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re: Libertarian presidential candidate Jo Jorgensen's platform is VERY appealing.

Posted on 7/4/20 at 10:03 pm to
Posted by G The Tiger Fan
Member since Apr 2015
103690 posts
Posted on 7/4/20 at 10:03 pm to
quote:

Libertarianism is what brought us to this point.
Well, I guess a century of nothing but Libertarian presidents and a Libertarian-controlled Congress really backfired on us.
Posted by DavidTheGnome
Monroe
Member since Apr 2015
29166 posts
Posted on 7/4/20 at 10:03 pm to
quote:

Yup. Libertarianism is to the Right what Communism is to the Left. It sounds great on paper, and in incredibly small samples sizes, but is an unmitigated disaster at any macro level.



Why though? I keep hearing people say this but nobody gives any details on why.
Posted by SOCAL TIGER
SOCAL
Member since Jan 2005
10722 posts
Posted on 7/4/20 at 10:04 pm to
Pipe dream. It is what every other politician has said many times.

Drugs are still here
Immigration reform is a joke
Healthcare is worse

What am I missing
Posted by HempHead
Big Sky Country
Member since Mar 2011
55454 posts
Posted on 7/4/20 at 10:04 pm to
quote:

Well, I guess a century of nothing but Libertarian presidents and a Libertarian-controlled Congress really backfired on us.



I'm guessing he is solely referring to much of the GOP being CoC whores.
Posted by G The Tiger Fan
Member since Apr 2015
103690 posts
Posted on 7/4/20 at 10:04 pm to
I've heard of Propertarianism also. I guess I've just been too lazy to look into it too closely.
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
67083 posts
Posted on 7/4/20 at 10:05 pm to
The only reason why actual conservatives (not RINO’s) might even entertain Jo is Trump’s stupid tweets and his very unconservative record on a handful of issues. Trump tweeting out a video where someone utters the phrase “white power” is a textbook example. People don’t want to be harassed and ostracized by their friend and professional peer groups due to politics. Every time Trump tweets something that stupid, the social pressure to not support him grows. Voting Libertarian allows many to support the bulk of their views without having to be labeled a racist white supremacist by everyone they know. While it’s easy to say that they shouldn’t worry about that bullying and stand up for their beliefs, but it’s different when it’s your life, your property, your social circle, your education, and your career on the line.
Posted by walley tux
DFW
Member since May 2020
794 posts
Posted on 7/4/20 at 10:05 pm to
so you want unrestricted immigration and hookers?

lee harvey i want to party with you!

you people are so phucking stupid.
Posted by Tiguar
Montana
Member since Mar 2012
33131 posts
Posted on 7/4/20 at 10:05 pm to
What I mean is the passionate people who truly love America and what it stands for went to the libertarian side. Libertarians have no fricking power as a political group because

a. Too small
b. By definition wants to leave people alone

Leaving people alone loses culture wars.

You don’t win wars by leaving your enemy alone.

It’s time for those same people to grow a pair and stop leaving communists alone.
This post was edited on 7/4/20 at 10:06 pm
Posted by Jjdoc
Cali
Member since Mar 2016
53468 posts
Posted on 7/4/20 at 10:06 pm to
quote:

So basically open borders.



Not basically. It is.
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
67083 posts
Posted on 7/4/20 at 10:07 pm to
quote:

Drugs are still here


Are drugs bad because of their addictiveness and mind-altering properties or because their illegality causes the drug trade to be governed by violence?

The worst thing about drugs is that they’re illegal.
This post was edited on 7/4/20 at 10:08 pm
Posted by G The Tiger Fan
Member since Apr 2015
103690 posts
Posted on 7/4/20 at 10:07 pm to
The problem with Republicans is that they let leftist Neocons take over the party in the last half of the 20th century and they still let them run the party. But like Tucker Carlson said a few nights ago, the Republican Party is probably the only hope we have to avoid full-blown Communism.
Posted by MasonTiger
Mason, Ohio
Member since Jan 2005
16249 posts
Posted on 7/4/20 at 10:07 pm to

Posted by Jjdoc
Cali
Member since Mar 2016
53468 posts
Posted on 7/4/20 at 10:09 pm to
quote:

Why though?



Open borders is the biggest
Posted by G The Tiger Fan
Member since Apr 2015
103690 posts
Posted on 7/4/20 at 10:10 pm to
I guess we shouldn't leave them alone. I'd like to get away from them, though. I don't know if I'm smart enough to come up with a plan to avoid full-blown Communism. I'm starting to think the only hope is secession and for the US to break up into a bunch of smaller countries but I think the chances of that happening in my lifetime are pretty much zero.
This post was edited on 7/4/20 at 10:12 pm
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
67083 posts
Posted on 7/4/20 at 10:10 pm to
If government lacks the power to intrude in your personal life and livelihood, government doesn’t pay people to not work and have kids, and government lacks the power to pick winners and losers in the market place, then why does it matter who wins the culture war? How much of the culture war is driven by government spending, prohibition, and taxation policy?
This post was edited on 7/4/20 at 10:11 pm
Posted by Tiguar
Montana
Member since Mar 2012
33131 posts
Posted on 7/4/20 at 10:11 pm to
Communism is a cancer. It will take over unless you kill it.

Even if we broke up, eventually down the line it would seep back into those who left.
Posted by Bamatab
Member since Jan 2013
15111 posts
Posted on 7/4/20 at 10:11 pm to
quote:

As appealing as it may be, a vote for her is equal to a vote for Biden.

She has literally zero chance to win and with the Dems and their cheating, Trump needs every vote he can get.

This 100%. She doesn’t stand a snowball’s chance in hell of winning a single state, much less enough delegates to win the election. And if hell did freeze over and she won, she wouldn’t be able to get anything passed because no one in Congress would work with her.

The only thing she’ll do is pull votes from Trump, and help out Biden. That is the only realistic outcome anyone can have for voting for her.
This post was edited on 7/4/20 at 10:14 pm
Posted by Toomer Deplorable
Team Bitter Clinger
Member since May 2020
17719 posts
Posted on 7/4/20 at 10:11 pm to
quote:

Libertarians are for open borders


Not all libertarians support open borders.

Open Borders Are an Assault on Private Property...

quote:

.....Some libertarians have assumed that the correct libertarian position on immigration must be “open borders,” or the completely unrestricted movement of people. Superficially, this appears correct: surely we believe in letting people go wherever they like!

But hold on a minute. Think about “freedom of speech,” another principle people associate with libertarians. Do we really believe in freedom of speech as an abstract principle? That would mean I have the right to yell out during a movie, or the right to disrupt a Church service, or the right to enter your home and shout obscenities at you.

What we believe in are private property rights. No one has “freedom of speech” on my property, since I set the rules, and in the last resort I can expel someone. He can say whatever he likes on his own property, and on the property of anyone who cares to listen to him, but not on mine.

The same principle holds for freedom of movement. Libertarians do not believe in any such principle in the abstract. I do not have the right to wander into your house, or into your gated community, or into Disneyworld, or onto your private beach, or onto Jay-Z’s private island. As with “freedom of speech,” private property is the relevant factor here. I can move onto any property I myself own or whose owner wishes to have me. I cannot simply go wherever I like.

Now if all the parcels of land in the whole world were privately owned, the solution to the so-called immigration problem would be evident. In fact, it might be more accurate to say that there would be no immigration problem in the first place. Everyone moving somewhere new would have to have the consent of the owner of that place.

When the state and its so-called public property enter the picture, though, things become murky, and it takes extra effort to uncover the proper libertarian position. I’d like to try to do that today.

Shortly before his death, Murray Rothbard published an article called “Nations by Consent: Decomposing the Nation State.” He had begun rethinking the assumption that libertarianism committed us to open borders.

He noted, for instance, the large number of ethnic Russians whom Stalin settled in Estonia. This was not done so that Baltic people could enjoy the fruits of diversity. It never is. It was done in an attempt to destroy an existing culture, and in the process to make a people more docile and less likely to cause problems for the Soviet empire.

Murray wondered: does libertarianism require me to support this, much less to celebrate it? Or might there be more to the immigration question after all?



This post was edited on 7/4/20 at 10:12 pm
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
67083 posts
Posted on 7/4/20 at 10:11 pm to
And libertarianism is the polar opposite of communism.
Posted by Tiguar
Montana
Member since Mar 2012
33131 posts
Posted on 7/4/20 at 10:12 pm to
Too bad the other side doesn’t think that.

While you’re going on about limited government the communists are getting you fired from your job and baiting you.

They don’t need the government to ruin your life and I don’t know how you can’t see that now after everything that’s happened.
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