re: Kentucky EMS unit face losing their licenses for saving a snakebitten man’s life

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a zoo would be a good place to have a couple wilderness paramedics on full time, especially for the reptiles section.

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Only if you are going to intentionally bankrupt the zoo.

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EMS gave me Ketamine, morphine, and fentanyl

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They know how to party.

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Jeff Thurman, a member of the board’s medical oversight committee, is sharing why guidelines are put in place for EMS workers.

“From my perspective, the focus shouldn’t necessarily be on the outcome, its on why the scope of practice exists, why it protects the public, and why we don’t want practitioners at any level, whether it be EMT, paramedic, nurse, physician, doing things that they haven’t been properly vetted to do,” he said.

Thurman said while he’s not a legal professional, he does not see why an EMS worker would be held accountable for someone dying while practicing their scope of care, unless negligence was a factor.

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Jeff’s tune would change quickly if he were the one to have been bitten…

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From my perspective, the focus shouldn’t necessarily be on the outcome

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Tell that to the guy that just got bitten by a snake that will kill him soon with the antivenom that will save him right there.

People that say the outcome isn't important are mostly rule followers or rule makers with little to no common sense or real life experiences. frick that guy. EMS did what they had to to save a life. That's what should matter. It wasn't reckless

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Jeff Thurman

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Needs a beatdown

Do we really need zoos with highly venomous snakes to where things like this can happen?

Bio labs let diseases out.
Dumbass snake fans let their boas out.


Like, keep your animals, and while we are at it, your people in your country.

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Yeah, the quote from the board member about the EMS team not being held liable if the man died scared me. Like that’s what really matters here, the rules are obeyed and it doesn’t matter if he dies, they wouldn’t be held responsible.

If my child gets bitten by a copperhead out in my yard, I want the antivenom administered ASAP, regardless of the government’s approval. The thought of trained medical professionals with the necessary lifesaving antidote, standing around waiting on approval to administer it while my child dies is something I can’t imagine. I think I would physically fight someone.

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And the man had the antivenom there at the zoo. He should have said he injected it himself. I assume the patient was familiar with snakes and knew what snake bit him and what antivenom was needed. That advice should go farther than some doctor who was not there and did not know for sure what type of snake had bitten the patient.

Government is just plain stupid and worthless in most cases.

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If my child gets bitten by a copperhead out in my yard, I want the antivenom administered ASAP, regardless of the government’s approval. The thought of trained medical professionals with the necessary lifesaving antidote, standing around waiting on approval to administer it while my child dies is something I can’t imagine. I think I would physically fight someone.

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Pro tip: If you or your child, or anyone you have some responsibility over, gets bit by a venomous snake near your home or anywhere that isn't wilderness do not wait on an ambulance. Grab your keys, and your phone and head to the ER immediately. Call the hospital on the way. You don't need to ID the snake, the antivenom for a native North American venomous snake is all the same. Doctors don't need or want the snake or a picture of it.

After you get to the hospital, ask three questions of the doctor(s):
1. Have you treated snakebites before?
2. What is your plan for an allergic reaction to the antivenom or the snakebite?
3. What is their plan if the first couple of rounds of antivenom don't work and the venom continues to progress and do damage?

If they cannot satisfactorily answer those three questions, have them administer the first round of antivenom, stabilize the patient, and begin looking for the closest hospital that has experience in treating venomous snakebites. You must advocate for the patient. Some doctors can do more harm with a lack of knowledge and experience than the snakebite itself would have done.

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James Harrison, the director of the Kentucky Reptile Zoo, was bitten by a highly venomous Jameson’s Mamba while working.

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Lucky to be alive, even with the antivenin.

People don't realize how fortunate we are here in the US, with the venomous snakes we have. Most of ours are pit vipers with hemotoxic venom enzymes. The Coral Snakes is our lone cobra family member with a purely neurotoxic venom, but the Southern Pacific Rattlesnake and Mojave Rattlesnake have a pretty nasty concoction that's a hemotoxin/neurotoxin blend. Bites from the Coral are extremely rare though.

The really dangerous snakes are in Australia, Africa and India. The Australian Inland Taipan will likely kill you with a single bite even if you happen to have antivenin vials on hand.

As for these EMTs though, the whole situation is absolutely ridiculous. If you live anywhere where venomous snakes are present, and you're a medic, why would you not already be considered a "wilderness medic"? Would they also be prohibited from administering epinephrine if a kid stumbled into a bald-faced hornet nest in the woods? What if someone stumbled upon a black bear or bobcat and startled it resulting in an attack? Just let them bleed out?

Seems like this incident will hopefully (and should) bring changes and clarifications to an obviously asinine policy.