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Started By
Message
re: Kari Lake Election Contest TRIAL! Viva & Barnes Live Commentary
Posted on 12/21/22 at 5:48 pm to Mickey Goldmill
Posted on 12/21/22 at 5:48 pm to Mickey Goldmill
quote:
Just wanted to say a quick kudos to you. You've been 100% consistent throughout this ordeal. Staying firm to your concerns about chain of custody, but fighting back at some of the other irrational arguments that were being made (which you got a lot of flak for doing)
Thanks.
Here's something to discuss for those following this, and it's one of the major issues in this proceeding -
How long does a wait time have to be, and for how long does it have to persist, for it to approach reasonable "voter disenfranchisement?"
1
Posted on 12/21/22 at 5:52 pm to moneyg
quote:If they dump all the ballots into 10 boxes, seal them IAW AZ CofC reqs, record the boxes/ID, then ship them, is there a problem? Obviously there should be, but does this Judge find that there is?
They are going to need to be able to show the chain of custody and accurate counts along the way in order for that to hold up.
They aren't capable of that. They don't know how many ballots were in drawer 3.
Posted on 12/21/22 at 5:57 pm to LSU2ALA
quote:
I agree it makes sense to count the number of ballots you send so they can balance against that number when they get there. Of course, if you are worried about people monkeying with stuff, then they still could even with that. They could remove ballots and replace with ones that you know voted the way you wish. In other words, if you are dealing in hypotheticals, then even knowing the count when they leave won’t matter.
That's why you have things like seals, and signatures with multiple witnesses from each party when seals are broken so that there is validation.
None of it was done. It was intentional.
The state has an obligation to be able to secure and document the validity of the election.
Posted on 12/21/22 at 6:03 pm to Cobra Tate
quote:
So in your expert opinion what do u think the outcome will be?
Lake bears the burden of proof and courts are disinclined to mess with elections, so she’s basically Sisyphus. She needs to show the intentional manipulation of the machines / ballots. affected the number / result. I think they showed that the actions of Maricopa were intentional. I believe the first expert witness showed intent, bc he effectively demonstrated that a 19 inch ballot was printed on 20 inch paper which made it impossible to read. The Maricopa employees testified that the 19 inch ballots would mess
Up the machines, and then said no way we printed 19’inch ballots. So they will be able to use that testimony against them. Arizona has no evidence or explanation that the election was on the up and up, or that refuted the expert saying that the 19 inch ballot was intentionally printed instead of the 20’inch.
However, I don’t think that Lake produced evidence that this shadiness affected the outcome. They need to call Richard Baris to prove the outcome itself was affected. As I understand it he’s their numbers guy. I’m listening to the Barnes other guy commentary and they are suggesting that they shouldn’t call Barris. I think that would be a huge mistake.
I think the only way to get a new election is some kind of evidence of hard numbers that are affected. Barris could do that, so I think it depends on how if goes with him. I was legitimately stunned by the first expert witness and how persuasive that was; usually I don’t believe anything expert witnesses say, and their only use is to talk about hearsay evidence and cross examining the other guy’s expert to make my point. If Barris is able to demonstrate to a statistical certainty that x number of lake voters left; then their chances are good for some level of relief, especially if he did as well as their first witness and the state produces no answer to Barris’s theory.
The judge has been careful and has made no legal errors that I can see - so if Lake wins - the ruling will stick. He’s not a risk taker tho- so if he makes a ruling it’s going to be because Arizona didn’t have an answer for Barris.
Posted on 12/21/22 at 6:05 pm to Wednesday
quote:
The judge has been careful and has made no legal errors that I can see - so if Lake wins - the ruling will stick. He’s not a risk taker tho- so if he makes a ruling it’s going to be because Arizona didn’t have an answer for Barris.
Is there any way criminal charges against Bill Gates/others could fall out of this, or an investigation that is ordered by this judge?
Posted on 12/21/22 at 6:05 pm to moneyg
The entire Republican establishment took a dive in the midterms. Especially in Arizona.
Posted on 12/21/22 at 6:09 pm to David_DJS
quote:
Is there any way criminal charges against Bill Gates/others could fall out of this, or an investigation that is ordered by this judge?
The Judge can’t order a criminal investigation or charge them with any crimes. The only relief he could provide would be a new election as I understand it.
A prosecution would require either a federal prosecutor or Arizona prosecutor to initiate. The Democrat AG won*, in Arizona so he obviously won’t and federal, well . . .
Posted on 12/21/22 at 6:11 pm to Wednesday
quote:
The Democrat AG won
Could a city prosecutor do it?
Posted on 12/21/22 at 6:15 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
If they dump all the ballots into 10 boxes, seal them IAW AZ CofC reqs, record the boxes/ID, then ship them, is there a problem? Obviously there should be, but does this Judge find that there is?
Lake has the burden of showing 1) chain of custody failures occurred (which she demonstrated); and 2) those failures affected the result.
The problem is - that without the chain of custody documents - you can’t quantify how the result was affected.
From a legal standpoint, I think the burden SHOULD then shift to Maricopa to show the result is reliable. However, we dealt with this same shite in 2020- the burden just stays with the candidate to show the result was affected with evidence that is deemed unreliable by failure to adhere to the freaking standards.
It will never stop infuriating me. It shouldn’t fLl on the candidate to authenticate a result. It should fall on these incompetent and corrupt election officials.
Posted on 12/21/22 at 6:18 pm to David_DJS
Sure. But those are usually done by county. Do you think a Maricopa county prosecutor is going to prosecute the Maricopa elections board.
They tried that in Wisconsin after 2020 where a sheriff investigated whether election laws that would affect how ballots were collected were broken. He proved they were, but couldn’t find a DA to press charges.
They tried that in Wisconsin after 2020 where a sheriff investigated whether election laws that would affect how ballots were collected were broken. He proved they were, but couldn’t find a DA to press charges.
Posted on 12/21/22 at 6:24 pm to Wednesday
quote:
I think the only way to get a new election is some kind of evidence of hard numbers that are affected.
Yeah I agree. I think that's basically what the judge said pre-trial.
Posted on 12/21/22 at 6:24 pm to Wednesday
quote:
Sure. But those are usually done by county. Do you think a Maricopa county prosecutor is going to prosecute the Maricopa elections board.
I don't have an informed answer on this, but Maricopa County is more conservative than a lot of people realize. Outside of Phoenix, and in nearly every direction are cities largely populated and run by conservatives. The Maricopa County Board of Supervisors is 80% Republican for a reason.
But I agree with you that satisfaction here would take something remarkable by this judge that isn't in the cards. But it would be a great consolation prize to see Bill Gates prosecuted or forced to resign.
Posted on 12/21/22 at 7:35 pm to Wednesday
quote:
Wednesday
thank u Posted on 12/21/22 at 8:01 pm to loogaroo
Clear disenfranchisement and circumstantially evident intentional misconduct. I wonder if this happened in Atlanta in High Democratic district if it wouldn't be on the news 24/7 like Jan 6th and be deemed Jim Crow! This is clearly criminal and a conspiracy to make sure Kari Lake did not become governor, by both Dems and Republicans not favorable to her belief that 2020 was stolen etc.. her rejection of the establishment narrative dump trump etc.
I hope and pray daily that this country can come back from this take over of our elections/ our legislature our puppet government!
I hope and pray daily that this country can come back from this take over of our elections/ our legislature our puppet government!
Posted on 12/21/22 at 8:49 pm to Wednesday
quote:
I’ll not going back to work. This is NOT going well for Maricopa
The expert testified that he could not testify that mis-sized paper caused any voters to be disenfranchised.
THat couldn't be better for Maricopa.
Edit: he also admitted that he had spoken at one of Pillow Man's stolen election gatherings.
Further good for Maricopa.
This post was edited on 12/21/22 at 10:27 pm
Posted on 12/21/22 at 8:52 pm to moneyg
quote:
That's why you have things like seals, and signatures with multiple witnesses from each party when seals are broken so that there is validation.
None of it was done. It was intentional.
The state has an obligation to be able to secure and document the validity of the election.
And who, at the state level, was in charge of assuring the legal processes were followed?
Who was the beneficiary of all these process failures?
That's right: Katie Hobbs.
It is no more complicated than that.
Posted on 12/21/22 at 8:56 pm to Wednesday
quote:
It will never stop infuriating me. It shouldn’t fLl on the candidate to authenticate a result. It should fall on these incompetent and corrupt election officials.
The plaintiff has the burden of proof. Doesn't it work that way where you practice?
Posted on 12/21/22 at 9:32 pm to texridder
quote:
The plaintiff has the burden of proof. Doesn't it work that way where you practice?
Says the guy that still thinks trump had hookers pee on a bed.
Posted on 12/21/22 at 9:54 pm to texridder
quote:
The plaintiff has the burden of proof. Doesn't it work that way where you practice?
good gawd - you are insufferable -
Posted on 12/21/22 at 9:59 pm to texridder
quote:
The expert testified that he could not testify that mis-sized paper caused any voters to be disenfranchised
The content on the paper was missized…not the paper.
If any of those were scanned and read, there is even a bigger problem because the reading of the image is based on expected locations of marks on the image.
If none were scanned and read then you have a major chain of custody issue which we pretty much already know Maricopa hasn’t maintained.
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