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Message

re: If you force a Christian bakery to bake gay wedding cakes, it'll start a precedent

Posted on 6/16/18 at 7:16 pm to
Posted by Argonaut
Member since Nov 2015
2059 posts
Posted on 6/16/18 at 7:16 pm to
quote:

Won't engage in the discussion beyond stating things no one disagrees with.


Except that someone obviously does, or they wouldn't have bothered bringing it up.
Posted by Dale51
Member since Oct 2016
32378 posts
Posted on 6/16/18 at 7:18 pm to
Cakes are not gay. They are cakes.

Religious expression is up to the individual not some gay guys.
Posted by Dale51
Member since Oct 2016
32378 posts
Posted on 6/16/18 at 7:19 pm to
quote:

So I wonder why so many Christians celebrate the deportation of refugees. Or so many celebrate wealth accumulation when widows and orphans aren’t being taken care of. Or so many celebrate Donald Trump, who is living in an aldulterous relationship.


Strawman argument, and a particularly bad one at that.
Posted by Dale51
Member since Oct 2016
32378 posts
Posted on 6/16/18 at 7:21 pm to
quote:

They would be better served to actually argue the merits of their case.


They can't.
Posted by Dale51
Member since Oct 2016
32378 posts
Posted on 6/16/18 at 7:23 pm to
quote:

I don't think liberals know how to win debates anymore.


They lost the ability when they became so open minded their brains fell out.
Sad.
Posted by BamaNixon
Stumptown
Member since Nov 2010
3266 posts
Posted on 6/16/18 at 7:23 pm to
quote:

Strawman argument, and a particularly bad one at that


Except it isn’t. A poster said it wasn’t very Christian to celebrate sin, and my point is that Christians do it all the time. Then they accuse others of “not calling a sin a sin.”
Posted by Dale51
Member since Oct 2016
32378 posts
Posted on 6/16/18 at 7:29 pm to
quote:

A poster said it wasn’t very Christian to celebrate sin, and my point is that Christians do it all the time. Then they accuse others of “not calling a sin a sin.”


You mean some Christians do it sometimes, don't you? Kind of like some SJWs and gays are bigots? I don't agree with you that they do it "all the time"...but you do you.
This post was edited on 6/16/18 at 7:31 pm
Posted by JoeHackett
Member since Aug 2016
5171 posts
Posted on 6/16/18 at 7:31 pm to
quote:

I will, however, call out the utter hypocrisy in Christians who single out homosexuality as some sort of unique sin and then celebrate a man who is living in clear violation (as much as anything in the Bible is clear) of Jesus’ teaching on marriage.


I agree with this.

quote:

but I don’t agree that a baker is called to refuse to make a cake for a gay wedding in order to affirm the Lordship of Jesus Christ. It’s certainly extra-biblical.


I've never heard anyone claim that refusing to bake a cake for a gay wedding was affirming the Lordship of Jesus. I guess someone could have said this but I've never heard it.

Obviously if you believe homosexuality is a sin, celebrating that sin violates your religion. Christians shouldn't celebrate other sins either but in this particular case, no one has ever been sued for not baking an "adultery" cake. Nor should they. Making this particular case 100% about religious freedom/1st Amendment and not about discrimination based on sexuality.
Posted by BamaNixon
Stumptown
Member since Nov 2010
3266 posts
Posted on 6/16/18 at 7:37 pm to
quote:

You mean some Christians do it sometimes, don't you? Kind of like some SJWs and gays are bigots? I don't agree with you that they do it "all the time"...but you do you


My apologies. I thought I might have been dealing with someone capable of understanding nuance within the English language. No, not all Christians do it all the time. It’s a figure of speech, like “oh, it’s no big deal, people go to movies by themselves all the time.” Of course not all people are in movie theatres alone 24 hours a day - that’s ridiculous and not how the English language works. It isn’t at all uncommon for American Christians, particularly Evangelicals, to fetishize homosexuality rather that do the hard work that Jesus called us to do.

And yes, some people who are gay and some people who are SJWs are almost certainly bigots. So what?
Posted by Dale51
Member since Oct 2016
32378 posts
Posted on 6/16/18 at 7:57 pm to
You may be overthinking this whole thing.
Personal mandates of following ones religion are simply that...personal guidelines for their personal lives.

Being forced to deny those beliefs is violating that persons right of free expression of their religion.

"....shall make no laws prohibiting the free exercise of religion"

Not that complicated.
No "nuance" needed. Plain, straightforward language.
Posted by Winkface
Member since Jul 2010
34377 posts
Posted on 6/16/18 at 7:59 pm to
That was a will and grace episode a while back.
This post was edited on 6/16/18 at 8:00 pm
Posted by McLemore
Member since Dec 2003
35330 posts
Posted on 6/16/18 at 8:40 pm to
Teach me more about the federally protected class that is sexual orientation.


And
quote:

...the proper Christian response for a baker is to deny a cake for a gay wedding.


100% wholly irrelevant.
This post was edited on 6/16/18 at 8:41 pm
Posted by RobbBobb
Member since Feb 2007
34286 posts
Posted on 6/16/18 at 8:43 pm to


You just keep on spinning. TGT was outperforming WMT, right up until they made that announcement. They havent recovered since

In fact, WMT hit a 5-year low the quarter before TGT made their tranny announcement. And WMT set an all-time high this past quarter. While TGT set a 5-year low within a year of its announcement. With its 5-year high being set the day before the announcement

Those are the facts. None of it spin. But I'll even let the TGT CEO dispute your spin with his own words
quote:

Cornell, Target's CEO said the backlash was "self-inflicted," The Wall Street Journal reported.

The boycott cost the company millions in lost sales and added expenses. Shopper traffic and same-store sales started sliding for the first time in years. Sales fell nearly 6% in the three quarters after the post compared with the same period last year, and same-store sales have dropped every quarter since.
Posted by Roger Klarvin
DFW
Member since Nov 2012
46671 posts
Posted on 6/16/18 at 8:48 pm to
quote:

Some part of a society has to be a neutral zone for it to function properly. For us that's the market place. When you offer something for sale, it needs to be available to everyone who can afford it. Nothing else will work.


The almighty dollar is almost always more powerful than bigotry. If a gay guy walks in willing to drop a hundred bucks, most homophobes won't say no.

In this day and age, with nearly every resource and amenity capable of being purchased without even leaving your home, laws dictating who one must serve are antiquated and unnecessary in our society. The number of people who would refuse service for such discriminatory reasons, and the sheer number of viable alternatives for consumers, mean nobody will be unable to obtain a service.
Posted by LSUFreek
Greater New Orleans
Member since Jan 2007
16312 posts
Posted on 6/16/18 at 8:50 pm to
The semi-retired one, yes
Posted by Argonaut
Member since Nov 2015
2059 posts
Posted on 6/16/18 at 8:52 pm to
quote:

You just keep on spinning. TGT was outperforming WMT, right up until they made that announcement. They havent recovered since

In fact, WMT hit a 5-year low the quarter before TGT made their tranny announcement. And WMT set an all-time high this past quarter. While TGT set a 5-year low within a year of its announcement. With its 5-year high being set the day before the announcement


I'll make it easy for you.

quote:

Those are the facts. None of it spin. But I'll even let the TGT CEO dispute your spin with his own words


Oh, really?

quote:

Target (TGT, +0.00%) reported a disappointing set of first-quarter results on Wednesday and warned investors to expect a slight drop in business in the current quarter.

The discount retailer pointed to many factors pinching sales, damp and cool weather in parts of the company and skittish consumers, among them.

But one thing not hitting sales is the purported boycott of Target by many customers offended by the company’s announcement last month that it would allow transgender customers and employees to use the bathroom in its stores that aligns with their identity. That came soon after a controversial law in North Carolina was passed about the use of bathrooms.

The move was met with anger in some quarters: within days, 1 million people had signed a pledge to boycott Target over the policy. But it’s not clear those shoppers actually did stop going, or whether this was just online bluster by a loud minority.

“You’ve heard us talk over the years about our commitment to diversity and inclusion,” Target CEO Brian Cornell told Fortune on a media call on Wednesday morning.

He did allow that just a few stores had some some protests and took a bit of a hit sales wise, but on the whole, the 1,800-store retailer didn’t feel anything.

“To date we have not seen a material or measurable impact on our business. just a handful of stores across the country have seen some activity and have been impacted ,” he added.
Posted by cwill
Member since Jan 2005
54755 posts
Posted on 6/16/18 at 10:15 pm to
quote:

"....shall make no law prohibiting the free exercise of religion"


Are there no limitations?
Posted by Dale51
Member since Oct 2016
32378 posts
Posted on 6/16/18 at 10:24 pm to
quote:

Are there no limitations?


Non Sequitur.
Simply refusing to a simple act is square 1 in the framework of protected religious expression. No where near any boundary of "limitation"
Posted by dewster
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
26608 posts
Posted on 6/16/18 at 10:28 pm to
quote:

Nothing else will work.


Horseapples.

Retail services maybe. Private, customized services- hell no. They should be able to refuse service because it’s a Tuesday if they wanted.
Posted by cwill
Member since Jan 2005
54755 posts
Posted on 6/16/18 at 10:29 pm to
quote:

Non Sequitur


Yeah, no. Don’t think you know what that means.
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