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re: I would be in favor of Trump pulling us out of NATO. What are your thoughts?
Posted on 2/7/25 at 10:03 am to goatmilker
Posted on 2/7/25 at 10:03 am to goatmilker
quote:
Can we just cut 50% of our NATO cost
Why would we cut our own defense budget by 50%? You understand that's what NATO funding is, right?
Posted on 2/7/25 at 10:03 am to Granola
My erection might kill me at that point but I would die one happy motherfricker...
Posted on 2/7/25 at 10:04 am to idlewatcher
quote:
This is the way
That way makes no sense, because outside of maintaining offices, there is no NATO "contribution". Each nation pays for its own military. Reducing our defense funding to the lowest member spending on its own military would be a disaster.
Posted on 2/7/25 at 10:05 am to Granola
The platform to speak into world issue is a good thing. It’s a position of influence that I wouldn’t desire to give up.
Posted on 2/7/25 at 10:11 am to Granola
absolutely, get us out of NATO and the UN as well
Posted on 2/7/25 at 10:14 am to Don Quixote
quote:
absolutely, get us out of NATO and the UN as well
totally agree. Let's get out of the UN and it's shitty politics
Posted on 2/7/25 at 10:15 am to Granola
Burn it to they ground - all of it
Posted on 2/7/25 at 10:30 am to SoFla Tideroller
quote:
There is zero justification for continued US involvement in NATO. None.
You're not even slightly concerned about further Russian agression? Us leaving NATO would open the door for Putin to attack any where he likes.
Posted on 2/7/25 at 10:43 am to notsince98
quote:
Hell yes. NATO only exists to create conflict and tension. It does nobody any good.
It stopped the expansion of communism in Europe. NATO guaranteed peace in Europe which prevented a 3rd world war in the 20th century. But now that we have an aggressive China and Russia on the world stage you want to disband it. You do realize that when the US-China war eventually comes we will need all the allies we can get, don't you?
Posted on 2/7/25 at 10:49 am to Lsupimp
I don't think that would be the best thing for the world. But, I think it would be interesting to see how Europe evolves in without us. All of Europe would be oh shite, we can't defend ourselves for these countries and even if we would win we wouldn't win so overwhelmingly that we would be destroyed in the process.
Not for it but the evolution and potential invasions and wars would be interesting. HORRIBLE YES if war broke out in places. But interesting in the sense of watching a board game of "Risk".
Not for it but the evolution and potential invasions and wars would be interesting. HORRIBLE YES if war broke out in places. But interesting in the sense of watching a board game of "Risk".
Posted on 2/7/25 at 10:50 am to Granola
not in favor of it, but in favor of not doing anything until all partners live up their end of the bargains, or even exceeding the 2% spend
Posted on 2/7/25 at 11:00 am to Jax-Tiger
quote:
Not right now. Keep that arrow in the quiver.
The people are behind figuring out government waste. He needs to stay on this track. His popularity is high and that is keeping the RINOs in line. If his popularity takes a nose-dive, we could see RINO defections that keep him from getting through his legislative agenda.
If the Democrats and RINOs think they have a case for impeaching Trump because he has overstepped his bounds, they will. He's gonna need to keep the RINOs in line. Right now, the Democrats don't know what to attack him on.
Dropping out of NATO is not going to be popular - either with the Europeans or the American People. It is going to take some finesse.
i have long been of the opinion we should .....but i agree...now is not the time at all.
prolly not in the trump term.
now UN...maybe but it is going to take longer than 4 years to accomplish our overall goals so we need to continue to do popular things and advertise the frick out of it. Lowest hanging fruit type thing
in the mean time...tariff nations that dont put in their share and advertise it as......these people want your sons and daughters to die protecting them and are not willing to pay their share...you tug at the heart strings of americans to get them on your side
eventually...frick yes we leave nato. frick nato. frick europe...but now isnt that time.
i also think there needs to be stipulations that they all need to have same aircraft....example f35 and all need the same tank i.e. abrams and all need same guns etc to boister our military sales. all of europe should be buying from us...or we are out.
atleast get something out of it
Posted on 2/7/25 at 11:06 am to Granola
Since only the UK and Poland value it, we should exit.
Rodo
Rodo
Posted on 2/7/25 at 11:15 am to BarberitosDawg
quote:
He can however cut US funding and we can watch it crumble into oblivion.
Direct U.S. funding for NATO as an organization is effectively peanuts (about $600M this year). We contribute about a sixth of the overall operating budget of $4.0B - Germany matches us dollar for dollar.
It's basically a rounding error in our defense spending.
Now, if you are talking strategic realignment where we remove American units full stop from places like Vicenza (where the 173rd Airborne is based), Aviano (31st Fighter Wing), and Sigonella (from where 6th Fleet is supported) in Italy, Baumholder, Grafenwoehr, Vilseck (2nd Cavalry), and Rammstein in Germany, Lakenheath (35th Fighter Wing and many drones) and nuclear submarine support in Faslane in Britain (among many others), Kosciuszko in Poland, so on and so on, then that is a different conversation.
Those are American units supporting American priorities and strategy. You could either bring those back to the States, and we will no longer have forward-deployed capabilities to do anything of importance (even special operations or air and drone strikes) in places like Eastern Europe, the Middle East, and Africa. And you are still paying for them. Or you could cut them out of the military completely and lose a fairly sizable chunk of hard combat power.
We also already did an exercise like this after the end of the Cold War (it was called BRAC - look it up). It ended up saving something on the order of $5 - 10B a year. Not meaningless, but certainly not significant.
Posted on 2/7/25 at 12:24 pm to WeeWee
quote:
It stopped the expansion of communism in Europe. NATO guaranteed peace in Europe which prevented a 3rd world war in the 20th century. But now that we have an aggressive China and Russia on the world stage you want to disband it. You do realize that when the US-China war eventually comes we will need all the allies we can get, don't you?
1) you dont appear to know the difference between past tense and present tense.
2) NATO was formed to protect from USSSR (which doesn't exist) and not China. Bringing china into the conversation is ignorant.
Posted on 2/7/25 at 12:25 pm to Granola
Yes, but only after they pull out of the UN.
Posted on 2/7/25 at 12:42 pm to notsince98
quote:
2) NATO was formed to protect from USSSR (which doesn't exist) and not China. Bringing china into the conversation is ignorant.
How is that relevant to the usefulness of NATO today?
Posted on 2/7/25 at 1:06 pm to Granola
Under some circumstances, yes.
I’d like to see Trump rearrange the Western alliance to include Europe, Eastern Europe, Russia, Japan, a South/Central American block, Australia, S Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, Canada, The United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, Egypt and a few others.
You’d keep NATO but it would be realigned to face China, Iran, N Korea and specifically any Marxist nations. It would have some core values that member nations would abide by, but they could be mildly authoritarian.
Protection of intellectual property would be one, fair trade amongst members would be another, opposition to Marxism would be a third.
I’d like to see Trump rearrange the Western alliance to include Europe, Eastern Europe, Russia, Japan, a South/Central American block, Australia, S Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, Canada, The United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, Egypt and a few others.
You’d keep NATO but it would be realigned to face China, Iran, N Korea and specifically any Marxist nations. It would have some core values that member nations would abide by, but they could be mildly authoritarian.
Protection of intellectual property would be one, fair trade amongst members would be another, opposition to Marxism would be a third.
Posted on 2/7/25 at 1:25 pm to bama1959
NATO was created to fight the USSR and her Warsaw Pact allies in the immediate post-war era when Western Europe was rebuilding. At the height of the Cold War, the Soviet Union had a population of 360+ million plus the tens of millions of the WP members. After the fall of the USSR, Russia's population has roughly halved (about 187mill last I saw. They've lost the additional manpower of the Warsaw Pact. In fact, some of those countries are now arrayed against them.
Western Europe has a larger population, bigger economy and manufacturing base, and a technological edge on Russia.
So, no, there is no reason for the US to be in NATO.
Western Europe has a larger population, bigger economy and manufacturing base, and a technological edge on Russia.
So, no, there is no reason for the US to be in NATO.
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