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re: How many of you will be upset if/when Ukraine thwarts Russia?
Posted on 10/4/22 at 10:59 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 10/4/22 at 10:59 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
He's the citizen facing the wrath of an overzealous government
My bad, but you worded it poorly.
And you do have a habit of inserting his name into topics where he isn’t being discussed. You did it on your last multi-page masturbatory Ukraine/Russia thread.
1
Posted on 10/4/22 at 11:00 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
I've been making this argument for literally weeks and nobody has really responded.
I’ve seen that.
Many want to make Putin a victim, some a white knight, but whatever you call him ; he is most responsible for the war.
This post was edited on 10/4/22 at 11:04 am
Posted on 10/4/22 at 11:00 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 10/4/22 at 11:30 am to Flats
quote:
And you do have a habit of inserting his name into topics where he isn’t being discussed. You did it on your last multi-page masturbatory Ukraine/Russia thread.
The topic of that thread was the term "globalism."
The only real association with Trump is b/c he coined it and his followers parrot the term over and over.
It's so poorly defined (and his followers bite on any anti-American propaganda they can without thinking), it was easy to show a conflation of ideas sincerely held. If the US blew up that pipeline, US-EU relations will have issues. That would be the biggest step to thwart globalism in 50+ years, as the US-EU is the backbone of the international community (oft called "globalism" on here). Pick your poison.
Smart people would never actually associate Trump with the OP in that thread
Posted on 10/4/22 at 11:31 am to TigerDoc
An actual invasion
That was a civil-proxy war, which was SOP in the Cold War (With NK and Vietnam being the biggest examples, but you can find them across the globe).
That was a civil-proxy war, which was SOP in the Cold War (With NK and Vietnam being the biggest examples, but you can find them across the globe).
This post was edited on 10/4/22 at 11:32 am
Posted on 10/4/22 at 11:31 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:I'm not sure I follow that.
Why the NATO talking point/lie is a great one for domestic support. We're really discussing the US-based support for the assertion, though.
Posted on 10/4/22 at 11:34 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
How many of you will be upset if/when Ukraine thwarts Russia?P
Depends on if that results in nukes being dropped.
Posted on 10/4/22 at 11:35 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
I'm not sure I follow that.
Russian citizens who aren't in the elite class are restricted in what they can view in terms of information, due to Russia's status as an authoritarian oligarchy. Putin, who runs that authoritarian regime, is very adept as propaganda and disinformation. We joke that the media is a mouthpiece for DEMs but here it's only coordinated in some respects. In Russia, the media is a government-controlled disinformation/propaganda delivery system. The typical Russian has no idea what's actually going on.
So if Russia pumps this NATO rhetoric into the bubble that is Russia, of course you're going to have a domestic reaction to NATO.
This thread isn't discussing Russians. It's discussing Americans. Plenty of Americans support the "NATO" talking point, which is what we're discussing here.
The fact that you can find an article saying Russia has domestic support for anti-NATO sentiments really isn't relevant to this discussion.
Posted on 10/4/22 at 11:36 am to omegaman66
quote:
Depends on if that results in nukes being dropped.
Why did you ignore the follow up questions in OP?
Since Russia can threaten to use nukes at any time, when can we respond to Russia?
Posted on 10/4/22 at 11:52 am to doubleb
quote:That is an incredibly naive viewpoint.
Putin as the leader of Russia started the war.
Sorry.
Even more so as it follows a just posted link demonstrating the perspective of the entire Russian body politick is aligned regarding NATO.
Posted on 10/4/22 at 11:53 am to SlowFlowPro
Your narrative is flawed. Why does it matter to any American if corrupt Ukraine is fighting with Russia? Do you care about the wars in : Ethiopia,Yemen,Myanmar; revolts linked to the Islamic State and al Qaeda have surged in the Middle East and Africa. There are wars and conflicts all over the world right now.
This post was edited on 10/4/22 at 11:57 am
Posted on 10/4/22 at 12:12 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:The "NATO is the obstacle to improving Russian-Western relations" article is not a survey of "citizens who aren't in the elite class". It addresses perceptions of "the ruling class".
Russian citizens who aren't in the elite class are restricted in what they can view in terms of information
Ironically, those whom you suppose lack access to information are, by some accounts, LESS vehemently concerned about NATO than their politicians. Though the population at large is far from enamored by an anti-Russian military alliance, as anyone would expect.
Posted on 10/4/22 at 12:22 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:The perception of the rattler as a hiker approaches is dead-center relevant to this discussion. The fact the hiker could have, and should have, recognized he was perceived as a threat is dead-center relevant to this discussion. The fact the hiker proceeded anyway, led to the strike.
The fact that you can find an article saying Russia has domestic support for anti-NATO sentiments really isn't relevant to this discussion.
Posted on 10/4/22 at 12:28 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
quote:Putin as the leader of Russia started the war.That is an incredibly naive viewpoint. Sorry. Even more so as it follows a just posted link demonstrating the perspective of the entire Russian body politick is aligned regarding NATO.
quote:
That is an incredibly naive viewpoint. Sorry. Even more so as it follows a just posted link demonstrating the perspective of the entire Russian body politick is aligned regarding NATO.
You think he had a reason to start the war, fine. But he did start the war.
Hitler apologists said he had a good reason to start WWII. The Versailles Treaty was onerous and he was just making things right. Or so they said. But Hitler started the war in Europe.
Japanese apologists have said Tojo had a good reason to bomb Pearl because FDR pushed Japan into a corner. But the fact is Japan attacked us.
This post was edited on 10/4/22 at 12:53 pm
Posted on 10/4/22 at 12:30 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
nt to this discussion.The perception of the rattler as a hiker approaches is dead-center relevant to this discussion
Have rattlers ever struck a hiker? Sure.
Had NATO ever unilaterally attacked a neighbor? No
Had Russia? Yes
Posted on 10/4/22 at 12:56 pm to doubleb
quote:Um, the rattler in the analogy ... it's Russia
Have rattlers ever struck a hiker? Sure.
Had NATO ever unilaterally attacked a neighbor? No
Had Russia? Yes
Posted on 10/4/22 at 1:01 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
The perception of the rattler as a hiker approaches is dead-center relevant to this discussion
If you have to go to that level of absurdity to come up with an analogy then you don't have a very good one.
We aren't talking about hikers and rattle snakes
Posted on 10/4/22 at 1:05 pm to doubleb
quote:I'm not sure you are following the post. You want to personalize this. Perhaps you need to personalize this. Putin is not isolated in his Russian viewpoints about NATO.quote:You think he had a reason to start the war, fine. But he did start the war.
the entire Russian body politick is aligned regarding NATO
quote:Yes there are so many of those.
Hitler apologists ...
But again, your desire to personalize history is noted. Without the entire German population being subjected to severe reparations hardships following WWI, Hitler probably never happens. Sort of like what we are attempting to impose on Russia? That is why it's important to understand history, rather than making it a fairytale about one bad dude.
Posted on 10/4/22 at 1:09 pm to SlowFlowPro
If you have time to post your bullshite while in a criminal courtroom then you must be one of those public defenders. You talk like you’re a know it all. Typical salesman esquire.
Posted on 10/4/22 at 1:23 pm to NC_Tigah
I don't have any doubt Putin invaded. He did move physically first.
I believe he had reasoning, even if logical to his countries stance.
What I have issue with is Biden's interference. To say a peace deal would not have happened without Biden's objections is just false. Biden has a hard on for this war continuing and the reasoning I don't think I fully grasp.
I believe he had reasoning, even if logical to his countries stance.
What I have issue with is Biden's interference. To say a peace deal would not have happened without Biden's objections is just false. Biden has a hard on for this war continuing and the reasoning I don't think I fully grasp.
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