re: How many of you will be upset if/when Ukraine thwarts Russia?

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You can agree with something Putin says or does and not be “pro-Putin”.

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Another one I saw was "You think Putin has rational and legitimate reasons for invading?". Those are two very different things. If somebody wants my money it's rational for them to steal it but that doesn't mean I view stealing as legitimate.

No, it's not irrational for Putin to be concerned about enemies on his front porch. Being able to see that just makes me logical, not a Putin fanboy.

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No, it's not irrational for Putin to be concerned about enemies on his front porch. Being able to see that just makes me logical, not a Putin fanboy.

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Reason why people say it makes you a Putin fan boy is because you’re believing in Russian propaganda, that comes straight from the mouth of Vladimir Putin. You’re defending his actions and accepting the excuse of, “We’re doing this to get NATO off of our borders.” Which is not the reason what so ever. NATO has already been on Russia’s border, for a long time. Finland and Sweden are joining NATO and I bet Russia doesn’t invade those countries.

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Our man didn't even stay in power long and wasn't the guy in charge when Putin invaded, so, again, this argument isn't really relevant...but even so, Russia was more involved, first. They started the aggression in Ukraine and were disrupting the EU and NATO, 2 IOs we have significant interest in respecting/defending.

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SFP, I don't know the extent to which you don't understand what occurred, or are trying to ignore/excuse it, or are trolling.

Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych was elected in 2010 in what the EU termed a remarkably fair election. He was pro-Russian. He was from the Donbas oblast where he witnessed the poor treatment of the region's Russian speaking population. He advocated on their behalf.

In November 2013, Soros and Obama organized a series of riots in Ukraine on which they'd later model the 2020 Summer of Love ... Riots, Burning, and Murder here.

The design was to overthrow Yanukovych, the duly elected pro-Russian Ukrainian President, and destroy the pro-Russian political base.

They could have worked through the democratic process. They didn't! Instead, they opted to back a non-democratic overthrow. What element of that fact do you not understand?

US backed groups stoked nationalistic fervor and concomitantly encouraged significant acceleration in Parliament of Ukraine-to-NATO dialogue. The sitting President vehemently opposed Ukraine playing patty-cake with NATO.

Both the riots and NATO talk were aided by cooperative Ukrainian media which the eventual next President, who is a billionaire, happened to own.

As the Obama/Soros-manipulated "Peaceful" Protests advanced, threats against Yanukovych (the pro-Russian President), his family, and supporters escalated significantly. In late February 2014, Yanukovych's car was shot up. He determined his situation and that of his supporters was no longer tenable, contacted Russia, and arranged safe passage to Russia via Crimea.

THAT was the point Russian troops walked into Crimea.

As I said previously, your contention the May 2014 election was fair ignores the fact that pro-Russian factions had been driven out of the country, or murdered, or jailed. The contest between remaining pro-western candidates may have been fair.

Ukraine is corrupt
Russia is corrupt
The US wants to fleece Ukraine
Russia wants to fleece Ukraine
Ukraine wants to be fleeced by the highest bidder.

All of these things are true. You can’t expect everyone to don a Ukraine flag pin just because they happen to be the lesser of two evils in a fight that most in the US don’t have an appetite for. It’s that simple. At this point, we are all just praying it doesn’t turn into WW3.

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Ukraine is corrupt
Russia is corrupt
The US wants to fleece Ukraine

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Russia and China are corrupt because their political system allows it as SOP.

Ukraine is corrupt because Obama and Biden setup their government to be corrupt, for their gain.

The only reason Biden is trying to keep Ukraine from Russia rule, is to maintain the unfettered corruption.

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Ukraine is kicking the shite out of Russia

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So why is the board constantly being subjected to threads like this? I thought a distaste and healthy skepticism for US involvement in foreign conflicts was something we all actually agreed on.

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Probably because the pro Putin and anti American stuff is bigger than I'm admitting

There are plenty of people who won't come out and say it but you can get the idea of what they're thinking

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Or did it start with poli board members having a hard on for Putin out of nowhere?

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Putin has been a thing on here since pre-Obama times

I even used to have this as my sig



Then some people went from joking about his obvious propaganda to promoting his obvious propaganda

Primarily when the DEMs won the white house. DEMs had been anti-America b/c a Republicans was in office, so now the Trump people will be anti-America b/c his opponent is in office, as how life has been since GWB when the polarity really started being promoted as a status quo.

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im not even pro ukraine,

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The US wants to fleece Ukraine

Ukraine wants to be fleeced by the highest bidder.

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these are not true, US oligarchs wanted to use ukraine to launder money and fleece the taxpayers, not ukraine

ukraine doesnt want to be fleeced by anyone....see there reaction and fierce fighting right now

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all just praying it doesn’t turn into WW3.

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i hope russia isnt stupid enough to use nukes but this isnt going to turn into WW3. They cant even defeat ukraine with our 1980s tech and cant even control the skys. they have no logistics, no maintenance and I am convinced they have less than a dozen working nukes based off the cost to maintain and their budget.