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re: How do you consider yourself logical and still believe in the Abrahamic God of the bible.
Posted on 10/9/22 at 7:40 am to Sailin Tiger
Posted on 10/9/22 at 7:40 am to Sailin Tiger
You are trying to use a scientific, and western approach to squaring the Bible. If you do that, then I can see where you come to your conclusion. But it is also where you make your mistake....it's also where a lot of believers make mistakes.
You assume that all Christians and Jews see the Bible translation as perfect. Not all do. Catholics and even Orthodox theologians will readily admit that there are some contradictions and things that don't make total sense at least from a coherent and naturally logical flow. But, then, faith is not based on logic...totally , because it involves God who is superintelligeable, meaning there are things we as men are not meant to understand, possibly until God decides we should understand.The Bible reflects this, if you are set on that route
From a doctrinal approach, however,I take issue with your assertion as it applies to the New Testament. It is remarkably consistent in message and doctrine. Christ and his message is consistent. There's a lot of b.s. that gets gleaned from the Bible that distracts us.
There is a God, as Christians we believe that Christ was his only son, who became man and experienced mortality....and did not directly interfere. My grandfather was fond of saying that "faith begins where reason ends"
You assume that all Christians and Jews see the Bible translation as perfect. Not all do. Catholics and even Orthodox theologians will readily admit that there are some contradictions and things that don't make total sense at least from a coherent and naturally logical flow. But, then, faith is not based on logic...totally , because it involves God who is superintelligeable, meaning there are things we as men are not meant to understand, possibly until God decides we should understand.The Bible reflects this, if you are set on that route
From a doctrinal approach, however,I take issue with your assertion as it applies to the New Testament. It is remarkably consistent in message and doctrine. Christ and his message is consistent. There's a lot of b.s. that gets gleaned from the Bible that distracts us.
There is a God, as Christians we believe that Christ was his only son, who became man and experienced mortality....and did not directly interfere. My grandfather was fond of saying that "faith begins where reason ends"
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Posted on 10/9/22 at 7:42 am to Sailin Tiger
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Posted on 10/9/22 at 7:44 am to Sailin Tiger
quote:
never said there is no God btw I said based on my knowledge of the Bible I choose t not live in fear of a being that is reading my thoughts and judging my actions as well as the thoughts and actions of 7 billion others. I find it highly unlikely that the abrahamic God of the bible is the correct answer to what controls the universe.
As far as “controls the universe goes”, if you’re point is God is not there micromanaging everything, then I agree. I hate this belief that has sprung up that everything happens because of God’s will. That’s not Biblical at all. God gave us free will. He has an ultimate will which he will work. I see nothing to show he gets bogged down in the details all the time. That doesn’t mean he won’t bless you or the like, but God is not a cosmic puppet master.
Posted on 10/9/22 at 7:45 am to LSU2ALA
Your lack of faith has absolutely no effect on my faith.
Posted on 10/9/22 at 7:48 am to Sailin Tiger
Christianity makes sense from both an intellectual and emotional level. It’s one of the few things in life that does. W
Posted on 10/9/22 at 7:56 am to Sailin Tiger
You know the truth. It has been given to everyone. Put in every mans heart. Some just cannot submit their minds to accept that there is a creator whose thoughts are higher than theirs and whose ways are higher than theirs. Its called submission and faith. Some cant get there. And if you cant, you arrive where you are.. over and over and over.
Posted on 10/9/22 at 8:00 am to Wednesday
quote:
Christianity makes sense from both an intellectual and emotional level. It’s one of the few things in life that does. W
I agree. I mentioned them earlier, but I’ll do it again. The writings of CS Lewis helped me a lot. Faith is the key to salvation. Paul is very clear about that in Ephesians; however, for people just saying faith, they are missing a huge part of it. There is reason and logic which Paul used and Lewis used to get you to the point that faith takes over. It has to make intellectual sense.
Posted on 10/9/22 at 8:01 am to LSU2ALA
Posted on 10/9/22 at 8:02 am to LChama
quote:
You know the truth. It has been given to everyone. Put in every mans heart. Some just cannot submit their minds to accept that there is a creator whose thoughts are higher than theirs and whose ways are higher than theirs. Its called submission and faith. Some cant get there. And if you cant, you arrive where you are.. over and over and over.
How is this possibly helpful to someone who is seeking. Your answer is this? How is this Christian love?
Posted on 10/9/22 at 8:06 am to Sailin Tiger
quote:
logical
quote:
literal brainwashing.
Okay Hillary.
For the record, I’m not sure I know anyone who thinks this way:
quote:
They can't even start the thought process of questioning God's existence because at their core they believe the act breaks their faith and is a sin.
But when you lack the ability to make good arguments, you have to fabricate bad ones for the other side and shoot them down. Straw. Man.
Posted on 10/9/22 at 8:10 am to LSU2ALA
It wasnt intended harshly. (The typed message board word fails inflection and tone and empathy. )
But that is why they call it faith. Either you can make the leap or you cant. Others have given different approaches that may be interpreted as a little less abrasive. I cant water it down though..theres not a version of Christianity where you get to make the rules because you think God’s rules are unfair. Thats more of an if then statement with Christianity and an omnipotent/omniscient God.. not a harsh judgement from me to you on a message board.
But that is why they call it faith. Either you can make the leap or you cant. Others have given different approaches that may be interpreted as a little less abrasive. I cant water it down though..theres not a version of Christianity where you get to make the rules because you think God’s rules are unfair. Thats more of an if then statement with Christianity and an omnipotent/omniscient God.. not a harsh judgement from me to you on a message board.
This post was edited on 10/9/22 at 8:11 am
Posted on 10/9/22 at 8:12 am to Sailin Tiger
1. What’s your educational background?
2. Are you fluent in Greek and Hebrew? (The language the Bible was written in)
3. Have you studied any other readings of early Christian Church fathers ?
2. Are you fluent in Greek and Hebrew? (The language the Bible was written in)
3. Have you studied any other readings of early Christian Church fathers ?
Posted on 10/9/22 at 8:14 am to Sailin Tiger
No need to troll.
You have free will to believe or not.
You have free will to believe or not.
Posted on 10/9/22 at 8:15 am to McLemore
quote:
But when you lack the ability to make good arguments, you have to fabricate bad ones for the other side and shoot them down. Straw. Man.
Only the people of the actual church I grew up in.
I'll leave this conversation with one question to everyone with genuine interest in seing the responses of those who wish to answer:
Why are you a Christian and how did you come to be one?
Posted on 10/9/22 at 8:17 am to McLemore
quote:
But when you lack the ability to make good arguments, you have to fabricate bad ones for the other side and shoot them down. Straw. Man.
This isn’t a straw man though. He’s saying what he believes Christians think based on his experience. If you read an earlier reply I made to him, I successfully guessed what denominations he had been around to form that belief. There are absolutely ones that the majority of churches in those denominations are not encouraging of your questioning the existence of God as if that topic is completely off the table.
Posted on 10/9/22 at 8:17 am to Sailin Tiger
quote:
Why are you a Christian and how did you come to be one?
Only by the grace of God
Posted on 10/9/22 at 8:18 am to Sailin Tiger
Get behind me, satan.
This post was edited on 10/9/22 at 8:20 am
Posted on 10/9/22 at 8:32 am to Sailin Tiger
This is one of the problems with the relatively new notion of Sola Scriptura. If someone begins to doubt the Bible, it will almost inevitably lead to a doubt of God.
My belief in God exists apart from the Bible. If the Bible were somehow discovered to be demonstrably false or a collection of forged documents, it wouldn't have any effect on my faith in God.
I know that Jews and Christians both existed for centuries before their Bibles were written and compiled. In both instances, the canon was created for use in liturgies. They were never meant to be history or science books.
My belief in God exists apart from the Bible. If the Bible were somehow discovered to be demonstrably false or a collection of forged documents, it wouldn't have any effect on my faith in God.
I know that Jews and Christians both existed for centuries before their Bibles were written and compiled. In both instances, the canon was created for use in liturgies. They were never meant to be history or science books.
This post was edited on 10/9/22 at 8:33 am
Posted on 10/9/22 at 8:35 am to Sailin Tiger
Man. I’m not reading everyone else’s replies. But have you read any of the classical Christian thinkers?
Seems to me a lot of people who think they’re objective and “logical” avoid reading the great Christian thinkers while claiming they can’t understand how anyone logical can believe Christianity.
Seems to me a lot of people who think they’re objective and “logical” avoid reading the great Christian thinkers while claiming they can’t understand how anyone logical can believe Christianity.
This post was edited on 10/9/22 at 8:36 am
Posted on 10/9/22 at 8:37 am to Sailin Tiger
quote:
Why are you a Christian and how did you come to be one?
I originally was a Christian as I was born into it as you said. I am still a Christian because it makes the most sense to me given the evidence I see. I have seen God move in my own life. I know that’s not persuasive for others, but it is for me.
One of the biggest arguments I know of is the original disciples. They went from hiding and denying Christ to boldly proclaiming him. Something caused that change. There is no reason to think it is mass hysteria or the like. They truly believed they saw the risen Christ and did so on multiple occasions. That’s the only thing that makes sense to me.
Another piece of evidence for me is the women who saw him risen first at the tomb. Many different people saw him on different occasions as risen so why are the women significant? Simply put, their testimony was not admissible in court at that time. If you were fabricating a story to convince people, you would not use women as your eye witnesses.
Those are both two pieces of evidence that speak to the resurrection itself, but the resurrection is fundamentally key to the belief in Christianity. On a more personal level, I have seen people’s lives changed by salvation in Christ. I have seen the Holy Spirit work in mine. I have seen these things happen that reinforce what I believe.
At the end of the day though, I am a Christian because of my faith in Christ and his redeeming power through his sacrifice and resurrection. I am justified though that by God’s grace and I’m constantly working on my sanctification through his grace as well, some days and times better than other for sure.
There is more, of course, but there is only so much you can put in a post. At its core though, I have faith because of what I have seen.
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