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re: How do you consider yourself logical and still believe in the Abrahamic God of the bible.

Posted on 10/9/22 at 7:04 am to
Posted by Jimbeaux
Member since Sep 2003
21770 posts
Posted on 10/9/22 at 7:04 am to
No. I mean Biblical scholars who understand the context and symbolic worldview in which the Bible was written.

Just take his simplistic mention of child sacrifice. The God of the Old Testament does not desire child sacrifice. I’m assuming he’s referring to the Abraham and Isaac story, which has incredibly deep symbolic meaning, and which is actually a lesson for the ancient Hebrews to NOT practice child sacrifice like all of the cultures and religions around them did practice.
Posted by Sailin Tiger
Member since Jul 2014
1681 posts
Posted on 10/9/22 at 7:08 am to
quote:

No where in the Bible did God condone child sacrifice. The closest he came was Isaac and he had provided an alternative. The test was the point, not the sacrifice.


What about Jepthah's daughter?
Posted by squid_hunt
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2021
11272 posts
Posted on 10/9/22 at 7:10 am to
quote:

What about Jepthah's daughter?

Jepthah was an idiot. Show me where God condoned that or praised him for it. He stuck his foot in his mouth and said something stupid and when he looked foolish, instead of backing off, he continued on his course. The lesson I always take away from that is be careful promising what you can't control. That is a horrible story, but I don't think you can blame God.
Posted by KAGTASTIC
Member since Feb 2022
7989 posts
Posted on 10/9/22 at 7:12 am to
Dennis Prager has written books on the first 5 books of The Bible, under his series called 'The Rational Bible'. I haven't read them, but maybe research them to see if maybe reading them will help you out here.

He just released Deuteronomy, which apparently was the most influential on our Founding Father's.
Posted by LRB1967
Tennessee
Member since Dec 2020
23173 posts
Posted on 10/9/22 at 7:13 am to
In the late 1940s there was a battle on the Temple mount in Jerusalem between Israeli and Jordanian soldiers. The Israeli soldiers got down to their last 25 bullets. Suddenly the Jordanian soldiers screamed "Abraham!" They dropped their weapons and ran away. One of the Isreali soldiers, Ira Rappaport, had the opportunity to meet one of the Jordanian soldiers many years later. The man told him that they had seen the Biblical Abraham standing on the Temple Mount with the Isrealis.
Posted by Enadious
formerly B5Lurker City of Central
Member since Aug 2004
18641 posts
Posted on 10/9/22 at 7:15 am to
quote:

Ultimately I came to the conclusion that for a religious text to be doctrine it must be infallible. The Bible does not hold up to that standard.

Everyone has a different perception of reality. People aren't perfect. You've read that eyewitnesses can be the worst to give testimony to an event. Still, the scriptures, I believe, contain truth, opinion, and some misinformation. The message is clear, though, it you look for it. It's simple enough.
Posted by LSU2ALA
Member since Jul 2018
2071 posts
Posted on 10/9/22 at 7:18 am to
quote:

You mean biased biblical scholars that agree with you of course.


I can’t speak for him, but I will say I question your child sacrifices. Where did ask for children to be sacrificed to him? I am not aware of that at all. Don’t say Abraham and Isaac as that was a test and Abraham’s hand was stayed by an angel.

With regards to the 10th, that was judgement upon Egypt for the sins of the land. I know we don’t like it and don’t want to think of it this way but sin is open war against God. He brought judgement in that act. Sin has an incredibly high price.

Regarding Moses writing the Pentateuch, that’s more tradition than anything. I cannot comment on the census issue you bring up as I simply don’t know enough to speak to it.
Posted by SixthAndBarone
Member since Jan 2019
11192 posts
Posted on 10/9/22 at 7:18 am to
It’s totally illogical to believe in God and to not see religion as a culture.

There, I said it.

For people who do believe in God and religion, I don’t mind at all. You do you.
Posted by Mo Jeaux
Member since Aug 2008
63828 posts
Posted on 10/9/22 at 7:18 am to
quote:

In the late 1940s there was a battle on the Temple mount in Jerusalem between Israeli and Jordanian soldiers. The Israeli soldiers got down to their last 25 bullets. Suddenly the Jordanian soldiers screamed "Abraham!" They dropped their weapons and ran away. One of the Isreali soldiers, Ira Rappaport, had the opportunity to meet one of the Jordanian soldiers many years later. The man told him that they had seen the Biblical Abraham standing on the Temple Mount with the Isrealis.


bullshite.
Posted by squid_hunt
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2021
11272 posts
Posted on 10/9/22 at 7:19 am to
quote:

believe, contain truth, opinion, and some misinformation. The message is clear, though, it you look for it. It's simple enough.

Again, I think a lot of this mentality comes from the way we interpret the reading. Like the red words. We assume because we made them red that they are the literal words that came out of Christ's mouth. There's no indication that was the intent and my test has always been, "If someone was telling me this and said this instead of this, would I consider one of them lying?" No. We read into it the contradictions sometimes. Just because someone came along and made the words red doesn't make them literal. And I realize that's just one example, but it's the same gist. We apply a much higher standard of "truth" on the Bible than we would accept elsewhere. Just because it's not laid out like a legal document doesn't mean it's not accurate.
Posted by Sailin Tiger
Member since Jul 2014
1681 posts
Posted on 10/9/22 at 7:21 am to
quote:

Dennis Prager has written books on the first 5 books of The Bible, under his series called 'The Rational Bible'


I'll take a look. It's a subject that has my current interest lately and I've recently read the case for faith, the case for a creator, Radical, the god delusion, an aetheists guide to the old testament, as well as being in the middle of a current re-reading of the bible itself (4 months in and only in isaiah right now as its not my only reading)
Posted by TurkeyBaconLeg
Member since Jul 2018
2060 posts
Posted on 10/9/22 at 7:21 am to
You really lack logic or critical thinking.

The Bible is made up of stories of miracles and teachings based on how humans of that age could interpret the amazing things that they witnessed and experienced.

Today we know more about how the world works, but we are really just scratching the surface of the Universe and its workings. We are just now learning about the existence of black holes or worm holes. We are seeing the possible existence of other realms/dimensions in space and time. The way time itself may work and how time may be slower when near a black hole. A tiny understanding Quantum Physics/Mechanics.

-Stories and accounts of people with near death experiences detailing what they saw and how they were able to know things after their experience that defies logic. Different planes of existence would explain the concept of “Heaven”. Perhaps “Heaven” is in a different plane of existence where time runs slower to where a hundred years on Earth is merely a few seconds in Heaven? That may explain how the “earth was created in six days” (Heaven time)

-People with deep connections to a “higher power” that are told of things to come. Tales of guardian angles and unexplained healing. Just look at the VIDEOS of objects (UFOs) traveling in unexplained ways. What are those objects? How do they just “appear”?

There is no doubt that the universe, the earth and all the creatures within were created by a higher intelligence. The way our bodies and minds biologically work are amazing.

I believe there is a higher power, whether you want to call that power “GOD’ or not. But there is a higher power. Perhaps we are living in a simulation and are being monitored and controlled through thoughts being put into our minds. Perhaps the earth is a place where our souls are challenged and matured.

There is “light” and there is “darkness”. There is love and there is evil. But, I firmly believe there is a lot more to our world and existence than “meets the eye”.

Think about this. Every single culture from ancient times to now are filled with stories of beings and wonders that defy their explanation. So how you can claim that there is NOT the existence of the Abrahamic GOD is beyond me. That is probably the best description of what the people of that time could describe and does not mean they were “brainwashed” from a young age.
Posted by LSU2ALA
Member since Jul 2018
2071 posts
Posted on 10/9/22 at 7:24 am to
quote:

You would be correct as my experience is with the baptist, catholic (through wife), and church of christ. Admittedly I do not know how Methodists are different.


Please do not think I’m saying Methodists are perfect, far from it. They have open to my questions though. As far as I’m concerned, you should run from any man or church that says they have all the answers without question.
Posted by CoyoteSong
Colorado
Member since Aug 2021
2603 posts
Posted on 10/9/22 at 7:26 am to


It’s crazy.
This post was edited on 10/13/22 at 3:46 am
Posted by Sailin Tiger
Member since Jul 2014
1681 posts
Posted on 10/9/22 at 7:28 am to
quote:

Think about this. Every single culture from ancient times to now are filled with stories of beings and wonders that defy their explanation. So how you can claim that there is NOT the existence of the Abrahamic GOD is beyond me. That is probably the best description of what the people of that time could describe and does not mean they were “brainwashed” from a young age


Check out the cargo cults of the 1900's
Posted by LSU2ALA
Member since Jul 2018
2071 posts
Posted on 10/9/22 at 7:31 am to
quote:

Wrong. It literally is the logic. I grew up in a christian family. I grew up going to sunday school. The first question that hit me early on was the idea that if I had been born somewhere else I would likely be doing the same thing except for another religion.


If I had been born in Saudi Arabia, then I would most likely be a practicing Muslim. As I read the Bible, that does present issues. I also wonder about those who were in the new world post Jesus and pre Columbus. They never heard anything. Are they just screwed? I don’t believe that for a minute.

If you read CS Lewis’s works, you can tell he believes that God judges the hearts of those to find those who love him though they did not know the name to call. I tend to think he makes a persuasive argument.
Posted by Sailin Tiger
Member since Jul 2014
1681 posts
Posted on 10/9/22 at 7:32 am to
I never said there is no God btw I said based on my knowledge of the Bible I choose t not live in fear of a being that is reading my thoughts and judging my actions as well as the thoughts and actions of 7 billion others. I find it highly unlikely that the abrahamic God of the bible is the correct answer to what controls the universe.
Posted by Sailin Tiger
Member since Jul 2014
1681 posts
Posted on 10/9/22 at 7:36 am to
quote:

Being gay is normal, you can choose which sex you want to be, fish become philosophers, nothing created everything, slaughtering babies is ok, white people are the devil, ignoring science because it contradicts your clown world liberal belief system.



Ahhh assuming my belief systems. I actually am closer to the Jordan Petersen school of thought in that I do not believe in the Bible but I do believe that western morals as brought by Christianity were a massive net positive for civilization. The nuclear family and the values surrounding one are the firmest foundation for society as a whole.
Posted by TurkeyBaconLeg
Member since Jul 2018
2060 posts
Posted on 10/9/22 at 7:38 am to
Ok, fair enough.

Religion is a creation of Man and his interpretations. Man is not perfect. But, that does not mean the religion has it all wrong (or all right).

Posted by fischd1
Mandeville
Member since Dec 2007
3439 posts
Posted on 10/9/22 at 7:38 am to
We’ll do you believe that a guy named Jesus was on our earth approx 2000 years ago? You do know the New Testament was written by a number or guys who were with him and the Romans crucified people regularly in that time period.
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