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re: How do you consider yourself logical and still believe in the Abrahamic God of the bible.
Posted on 10/9/22 at 8:39 am to Sailin Tiger
Posted on 10/9/22 at 8:39 am to Sailin Tiger
quote:
The more reading I do
Too bad you’ve read nothing about logical fallacies.
Posted on 10/9/22 at 8:41 am to CatholicLSUDude
quote:
Man. I’m not reading everyone else’s replies. But have you read any of the classical Christian thinkers? Seems to me a lot of people who think they’re objective and “logical” avoid reading the great Christian thinkers while claiming they can’t understand how anyone logical can believe Christianity.
Exactly. I’m not even saying this is the OP. I’m just saying the idea that you take everything on faith without logical thought beforehand is crazy. There have been many excellent and logical defenses of the faith made. We are not asked to do this alone.
Posted on 10/9/22 at 8:42 am to AUveritas
quote:Without the Bible, you don’t have the Gospel. Without the Gospel, you don’t have salvation.
This is one of the problems with the relatively new notion of Sola Scriptura. If someone begins to doubt the Bible, it will almost inevitably lead to a doubt of God.
My belief in God exists apart from the Bible. If the Bible were somehow discovered to be demonstrably false or a collection of forged documents, it wouldn't have any effect on my faith in God.
I know that Jews and Christians both existed for centuries before their Bibles were written and compiled. In both instances, the canon was created for use in liturgies. They were never meant to be history or science books
Natural revelation only gives man enough knowledge of God to be condemned. It’s the special revelation of the Bible that provides man the knowledge of God that saves.
Posted on 10/9/22 at 8:46 am to LSU2ALA
quote:
This isn’t a straw man though. He’s saying what he believes Christians think based on his experience. If you read an earlier reply I made to him, I successfully guessed what denominations he had been around to form that belief. There are absolutely ones that the majority of churches in those denominations are not encouraging of your questioning the existence of God as if that topic is completely off the table.
Fair enough. But he absolutely set up a straw man by saying “literally most ….”
But I agree that there is a huge crisis of faith that is as old as mankind.
Posted on 10/9/22 at 8:49 am to Sailin Tiger
quote:Im a Christian because I belong to Jesus and He gave me a saving faith by His Spirit. My location has nothing to do with it, as Christ is building His church in all corners of the earth. It’s based on God’s loving providence that any are saved, not based on random chance.
Why are you a Christian and how did you come to be one?
For one, just because I live in the West doesn’t mean I could believe the Gospel as true. You have rejected it though you live here. Many more reject the truth even though there is abundant access to it.
For another, missionaries exist because faith comes by hearing the Gospel and the Gospel was commanded by Christ to be preached throughout the world. There are tribes in Africa who have the Gospel today and people are saved through it. Would you dare tell them that they are only Christian because of where they live?
Posted on 10/9/22 at 8:52 am to Sailin Tiger
So, you don’t believe. I respect that. I am a believer. I don’t question your right to believe what you choose. What I am curious about is why do you feel the need to insult believers by implying that they lack intelligence/logic? Why do you care? Why can’t you just respect that people have their own beliefs or faith and it has nothing to do with you.
Posted on 10/9/22 at 8:52 am to Sailin Tiger
Actually, I look for meaning and understand that I am viewing through their eyes in their time with their understanding of the world. Not just with Christianity, but from every belief system in the world.
Angels - by definition, extra-terrestrials?
Ascension on clouds of fire - spacecraft?
Noah’s flood - same story from all over the world
Watchers/Giants - gods of Olympus/Titans?
Super long life spans - space travel/theory of relativity?
Bottom line is that there is way too much in the archeological record to come to any other conclusion than one that says there is no limit to what we don’t know.
So, my faith that we were created/engineered by an entity that I know as God and that my salvation comes through the grace and sacrifice of a God/man known to me as Jesus is, in my mind, more logical than the possibility of everything being a huge accident. Not much logic in that.
Angels - by definition, extra-terrestrials?
Ascension on clouds of fire - spacecraft?
Noah’s flood - same story from all over the world
Watchers/Giants - gods of Olympus/Titans?
Super long life spans - space travel/theory of relativity?
Bottom line is that there is way too much in the archeological record to come to any other conclusion than one that says there is no limit to what we don’t know.
So, my faith that we were created/engineered by an entity that I know as God and that my salvation comes through the grace and sacrifice of a God/man known to me as Jesus is, in my mind, more logical than the possibility of everything being a huge accident. Not much logic in that.
Posted on 10/9/22 at 8:53 am to Sailin Tiger
quote:Please explain where universal, necessary, invariant, and immaterial concepts like laws of logic come from in a purely material universe? How does that which is immaterial come from that which is material?
How do you consider yourself logical and still believe in the Abrahamic God of the bible.
Posted on 10/9/22 at 8:59 am to lsursb
quote:
I don’t question your right to believe what you choose. What I am curious about is why do you feel the need to insult believers by implying that they lack intelligence/logic?
Apologies for the initial tone. I started this thread after a family member called and asked if they could bring my daughter to church and implying a few things other things. I respect your right to believe what you want I get slightly annoyed by people within my own circle that have the audacity to press me with their religiius views but immediately treat me as hostile when I press back with anything more than a head nod. I did the same thing initially here and for that I apologize.
Posted on 10/9/22 at 9:09 am to Sailin Tiger
Check this out. Reply in this thread and it doesnt move to the top of the page like normal threads
This post was edited on 10/9/22 at 9:11 am
Posted on 10/9/22 at 9:28 am to LChama
Mods generally don’t like religious threads. They eventually get anchored.
Posted on 10/9/22 at 9:29 am to KiwiHead
quote:
"faith begins where reason ends"
I like that and it leads to a question I have been turning over in my mind lately.
Why is faith so important to God? So important that it is essential for salvation.
Posted on 10/9/22 at 9:36 am to SixthAndBarone
quote:
t’s totally illogical to believe in God and to not see religion as a culture. There, I said it. For people who do believe in God and religion, I don’t mind at all. You do you.
I believe in God and Jesus Christ. I believe he created the universe.
Can someone who does not believe explain how the Big Bang occurred? What I mean is how could the “bang” occur from nothing?
If it occurred from some type of matter being around… where did that matter come from.
Many non believers don’t think there is a supreme being who created the world but at the same time they know there was something there before the “Big Bang”. Matter cannot be created from nothing. So if they believe that something was there before the bang is it really much different than a supreme being who has always been?
Posted on 10/9/22 at 9:42 am to alphaandomega
quote:
Can someone who does not believe explain how the Big Bang occurred? What I mean is how could the “bang” occur from nothing?
I do not have an answer to this. I just don't see how the Christian God is the answer either. Science continues to advance on answers to the workings of matter I think it is more likely that there is no God in the sense of the word as used in the Bible in the sense of him/her being a conscious omnipotent being than that there is
Posted on 10/9/22 at 9:49 am to Sailin Tiger
How many things from the Bible would have to be proven true for you to accept its veracity? Research the items that were once said to be untrue that are now accepted facts. eBy saying you think there is a different way.. You are saying that you are wiser than the Word.
Posted on 10/9/22 at 9:49 am to Jimbeaux
quote:
Just take his simplistic mention of child sacrifice. The God of the Old Testament does not desire child sacrifice. I’m assuming he’s referring to the Abraham and Isaac story, which has incredibly deep symbolic meaning, and which is actually a lesson for the ancient Hebrews to NOT practice child sacrifice like all of the cultures and religions around them did practice.
This is a good reminder, and maybe can help the OP. As mentioned how an early thought was what if he were born into a different religion. Which is a major difference between Judaism and Christianity, where the latter easily allows for others to come The Lord to be saved.
Lots of lessons of The Bible are counters to what other cultures/religions were practicing.
Definitely a helpful crucial reminder for today, as we are seeing an anti-God religion take over a political group. Pushing their anti-God beliefs via "legal" means.
Posted on 10/9/22 at 9:49 am to LSU2ALA
That isn’t even remotely true, I grew up in the Church of Christ and all you are taught to do is question the legitimacy and accuracy of what is being taught. The Old Testament is rarely if ever taught. It is very much a New Testament church. It is very rigid in its rituals and routines but to suggest there is no room for questions is nonsensical. I question the OP’s intentions
Posted on 10/9/22 at 9:50 am to Sailin Tiger
It’s called faith. And please don’t tell me I can’t be logical and faithful.
Posted on 10/9/22 at 9:50 am to Sailin Tiger
quote:
The more reading I do the less the Bible makes sense. If
Your whole premise is misinformed.
The Bible was never intended to be the foundation of the Christian faith.
Jesus established a church to be his witness on earth. The church uses the Bible as one of many resources.
The Christian church (Catholic Church) has been around for 2000 years.
The belief that the Bible is the foundation of faith is a Protestant belief that has only been around for a few hundred years.
This post was edited on 10/9/22 at 9:55 am
Posted on 10/9/22 at 9:59 am to Sailin Tiger
Seek and you will find. The answer you seek requires faith. The existence of God can neither be proven, nor disproven, by logic. We all have faith, and use it continuously. Where you place your faith, is determined by your own free will. For me, the arguments for God are more compelling than the ones made by those who are merely trying to deny His existence in order to escape His judgment. Both positions require assumptions supported by faith.
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