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Started By
Message
re: How did we get into this trade mess to start with?
Posted on 4/10/25 at 9:50 am to SneezyBeltranIsHere
Posted on 4/10/25 at 9:50 am to SneezyBeltranIsHere
quote:
Tariffs and restrictive trade measures have been proven to hurt more than they help. That is why we have the largest economy in the world without them, and countries that use them have inferior economies to ours.
I agree that tariffs/restrictive measures can be damaging, but our economy is #1 for waaaaaay more reasons than tariff policy, such as natural resources, a large, highly educated workforce, and relatively high freedoms neither related to tariffs nor economic restriction.
You're grossly oversimplifying and can make a better argument
0
Posted on 4/10/25 at 9:51 am to SneezyBeltranIsHere
Trade deficits are a psychological hang up. For example:
We will always have a trade "deficit" with Canada. 1) US has 9× more people .....Canada has 40 million people, US has 335 million. They have items we need like oil and aluminum . We buy a shittonnne of it from them at market rates and sometimes a discount. We have auto manufacturers that are US companies with factories in Southern Ontario and Michigan positioned to maximize both markets and create an integrated supply chain. Everyone has won in that arrangement....including the dairy farmers who don't see that big tariff unless US imports hit a certain threshold that happens infrequently.
It's just an example of a smart trade deal
Our current deals with Japan and SoKo, are always being tweaked. There are reasons why US cars are not big sellers there, and it is not necessarily due to tariffs. But, we keep them fed....literally and they deliver reliable quality products to us.....along with jobs. See Toyota plants in places like Tupelo, MS.
Yes, we do have a shitty deal with the ChiComs. But that is about it.
We will always have a trade "deficit" with Canada. 1) US has 9× more people .....Canada has 40 million people, US has 335 million. They have items we need like oil and aluminum . We buy a shittonnne of it from them at market rates and sometimes a discount. We have auto manufacturers that are US companies with factories in Southern Ontario and Michigan positioned to maximize both markets and create an integrated supply chain. Everyone has won in that arrangement....including the dairy farmers who don't see that big tariff unless US imports hit a certain threshold that happens infrequently.
It's just an example of a smart trade deal
Our current deals with Japan and SoKo, are always being tweaked. There are reasons why US cars are not big sellers there, and it is not necessarily due to tariffs. But, we keep them fed....literally and they deliver reliable quality products to us.....along with jobs. See Toyota plants in places like Tupelo, MS.
Yes, we do have a shitty deal with the ChiComs. But that is about it.
Posted on 4/10/25 at 9:53 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
but then in the early 1990s Liberty plant that made overalls and other Liberty brand clothes closed and production of those items was moved to China.
It closed because people didn't buy their overalls because they were too expensive.
I also hate what the last 50 years has done to small towns, but I don't think subsidizing denim overalls will bring them back.
Posted on 4/10/25 at 9:54 am to Darth_Vader
On November 5th stupid people in America voted for a idiot that’s how
Posted on 4/10/25 at 9:55 am to KiwiHead
quote:
Trade deficits are a psychological hang up.
They're a damned intelligence hang up.
Posted on 4/10/25 at 9:55 am to Darth_Vader
Bush, Clinton, Bush and their manufacturing supporters. 3rd world labor dirt cheap and much less regulatory expense. Manufacture 3rd world, implement low import tariff, and screw American manufacturing employees. It's all about profit.
100+ years ago the textile industry moved to the impoverished Southeast because New England production was too expensive. Now the SE textile workers are too expensive.
100+ years ago the textile industry moved to the impoverished Southeast because New England production was too expensive. Now the SE textile workers are too expensive.
Posted on 4/10/25 at 10:01 am to Darth_Vader
By the early 70s there was a policy shift by our government/economic leaders. They saw the value of a domestic demand economy. Consume consume consume would drive the economy of the USA and it also squared up with the dominant foreign policy goal at the time - containment of the Soviet Union. Manufacturing was dirty, gross, and didn't pay as well as service industries - so promote college, make college easy to get into, even for people who really cannot afford it.
It was all by design.
I think overall it has been somewhat successful. But the excesses of the scheme need to be pulled back, and I think that is what Trump is trying to do.
It was all by design.
I think overall it has been somewhat successful. But the excesses of the scheme need to be pulled back, and I think that is what Trump is trying to do.
Posted on 4/10/25 at 10:03 am to Darth_Vader
Our politicians sold out our country for foreign countries to give them, their family members, and lawyer buddies kickbacks. It’s really that simple. Nobody in politics should be as wealthy as they are with their salary.
Posted on 4/10/25 at 10:09 am to Darth_Vader
Jekyll Island 1913.
Bankers-Rothschild Inc control and imposition of UN-Globalism plan post WW2
Chyna's designation as "Most Favored Nation" in 1992 (and transfer of US Tech R&D) and Agenda 21 was treasonous betrayal that spelled the death knell for America's superiority of manufacturing, self-reliance and independence
The unique greatness of US identity, economics, and independence has been steadily eroded, dismantled and outright sabotaged by The Enemy Within.
The true 'Golden Age' of the US only lasted around 25 years (1946-1971.) It just seems much longer.
Bankers-Rothschild Inc control and imposition of UN-Globalism plan post WW2
Chyna's designation as "Most Favored Nation" in 1992 (and transfer of US Tech R&D) and Agenda 21 was treasonous betrayal that spelled the death knell for America's superiority of manufacturing, self-reliance and independence
The unique greatness of US identity, economics, and independence has been steadily eroded, dismantled and outright sabotaged by The Enemy Within.
The true 'Golden Age' of the US only lasted around 25 years (1946-1971.) It just seems much longer.
Posted on 4/10/25 at 10:13 am to Darth_Vader
quote:This isn't just due to importing good, tho. Urbanization has been a thing since the industrial revolution and mechanized farming. Even China is seeing massive urbanizimg. Yet... they are an export nation.
I’m sorry but this is idiotic. Just travel though any state and you’ll find the dying corpse of small town after small town that use to be thriving but are now dead.
quote:I grew up in a small town too. Loved it. But nostalgia isn't a good basis for policy. We don't use steam engines anymore, but man, they were cool!
I grew up a few miles outside of one such small town in northern Alabama. It’s called Altoona. Back in the 70s and 80s, it was thriving. Had a variety stores, doctor offices, restaurants, etc. but then in the early 1990s Liberty plant that made overalls and other
quote:So the question here is... was working in a sewing shop the best (and only) thing those employees were capable of? If the answer is yes, "trade" isn't the problem.
Liberty brand clothes closed and production of those items was moved to China. When the Liberty plant closed, it killed Altoona. Now there’s empty building after empty building. All that’s left is a bank and a gas station.
This post was edited on 4/10/25 at 10:20 am
Posted on 4/10/25 at 10:16 am to SneezyBeltranIsHere
quote:Some of them literally think we have to repay the trade deficit, apparently.
Trade deficits are are irrelevant. We have the biggest economy. We have the most money. Of course we will spend more on goods from other countries than they will spend on ours.
The idea that the US should export as much as they import is like saying Elon Musk shouldn't be buying more than the average Joe is.
Posted on 4/10/25 at 10:20 am to SneezyBeltranIsHere
quote:
Tariffs and restrictive trade measures have been proven to hurt more than they help. That is why we have the largest economy in the world without them, and countries that use them have inferior economies to ours.
So then you agree that using them as leverage to get other countries to remove theirs will help everyone? And America will be better off in the long run when we have new trade deals that enhance free trade instead of making it one sided like it’s been for decades?
Posted on 4/10/25 at 10:22 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
Just travel though any state and you’ll find the dying corpse of small town after small town that use to be thriving but are now dead.
Changing society and bad choices caused this.
There are jobs for these people. Even manufacturing jobs.
quote:
I grew up a few miles outside of one such small town in northern Alabama. It’s called Altoona. Back in the 70s and 80s, it was thriving. Had a variety stores, doctor offices, restaurants, etc. but then in the early 1990s Liberty plant that made overalls and other Liberty brand clothes closed and production of those items was moved to China. When the Liberty plant closed, it killed Altoona. Now there’s empty building after empty building. All that’s left is a bank and a gas station.
Now, look at how many OTHER factories have opened in Alabama.
LINK
quote:
In 1993, Mercedes-Benz announced plans to open its only US assembly plant in Alabama. From there the road has been paved for auto manufacturers to take advantage of our competitive incentives and skilled workforce. Honda, Hyundai, Mazda-Toyota and an ever-expanding network of auto suppliers have made their home here, putting Alabama in the Top 5 nationally for automotive production and the No. 1 state for auto exports.
LINK
quote:
Last year, we introduced four of these projects — a solar plant in Lawrence County, a J.M. Smucker plant near Birmingham, an aluminum plant in Baldwin County and a bridge to ease traffic across the waters between Mobile and Baldwin counties.
Since then, two are open; two are still in the works.
This post was edited on 4/10/25 at 10:23 am
Posted on 4/10/25 at 10:22 am to Darth_Vader
I see a lot of detailed attempts at answering the question but the real answer isn't all that complicated. The real answer is got the majority of bureaucrats in Washington DC are liberals regardless of who the president is and the majority of liberals consider the United States to be a worldwide villain. So a lot of the people that theoretically are working on our side are actually working for the other team because they think we deserve our comeuppance.
Posted on 4/10/25 at 10:24 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
How is it we have ended up with such shitty trade deals with virtually every country on the planet?
My theory is our politicians are getting juice on the tariffs they allow on our products.
Posted on 4/10/25 at 10:24 am to Robin Masters
quote:
My theory is our politicians are getting juice on the tariffs they allow on our products.
Posted on 4/10/25 at 10:28 am to joe68
quote:
On November 5th stupid people in America voted for a idiot that’s how
Us stupid people had one other option, Harris/Waltz. Do you think the US would be better off with Harris/Waltz in the White House?
Posted on 4/10/25 at 10:31 am to JiminyCricket
quote:
Incompetence, weak leadership, corruption, etc. etc.
I would have to take a guess that corruption would be at the top of the list.
Posted on 4/10/25 at 10:43 am to SlowFlowPro
You’re a grown man using emojis. Read that as many times as required for you to feel the appropriate level of shame.
Posted on 4/10/25 at 10:46 am to RebelExpress38
quote:
So then you agree that using them as leverage to get other countries to remove theirs will help everyone?
I certainly do not. If I had a magic wand and could make all tariffs disappear, that would be great! However, the US utilizing protectionist policies like tariffs will do more harm than good. History has proven this and the markets agree.
quote:
And America will be better off in the long run when we have new trade deals that enhance free trade instead of making it one sided like it’s been for decades?
What does this mean to Trump? Trump promised to bring back manufacturing to the US. New trade deals would keep manufacturing abroad. Trump's aims and goals conflict with each other, which is another ingredient in this cocktail of uncertainty that is tanking the markets and hurting us all.
This post was edited on 4/10/25 at 10:48 am
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