- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: For those outraged about civilian casualties in Ukrain
Posted on 3/23/22 at 9:14 pm to Rohan Gravy
Posted on 3/23/22 at 9:14 pm to Rohan Gravy
quote:
He hated the japs till the day he died
They are mostly nice present day lol
0
Posted on 3/23/22 at 9:15 pm to Rohan Gravy
Why do you have to go all the way back to our war ending nukes? We bombed the hell out of civilians in Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria.
Our nukes in ww2 saved a lot of lives by ending the war. Lot of American, Chinese and Japanese lives.
Our nukes in ww2 saved a lot of lives by ending the war. Lot of American, Chinese and Japanese lives.
This post was edited on 3/23/22 at 9:16 pm
Posted on 3/23/22 at 9:15 pm to Pettifogger
Good post
I just wonder why it had to get to this point? It just seems reckless that we were signaling an interest in NATO membership. That was a terrible miscalculation. Putin has a long history of invading his neighbors. Biden and the EU should have seen this coming.
This just seems like it was a sick measuring contest and the West was determined to put Putin in his place come hell or high water. The people of Ukraine and the economy of the rest of the world coming out of Covid be damned.
I just wonder why it had to get to this point? It just seems reckless that we were signaling an interest in NATO membership. That was a terrible miscalculation. Putin has a long history of invading his neighbors. Biden and the EU should have seen this coming.
This just seems like it was a sick measuring contest and the West was determined to put Putin in his place come hell or high water. The people of Ukraine and the economy of the rest of the world coming out of Covid be damned.
Posted on 3/23/22 at 9:15 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
There was no imminent threat of NATO membership.
I was wondering about that aspect, then Wall Street Journal mentioned a few weeks ago some pact was a precursor. This guy covers it.
quote:
This war did not have to happen. Many US foreign policy planners and IR academics have openly stated in the past that trying to snatch Ukraine from out of Russia’s sphere of influence would be a red line crossed. Instead, the USA went ahead and armed Ukraine, and put it on the path towards NATO membership. It taunted the Bear, and the Bear is now reacting. Like it or not, that is the actual situation. This is a conflict about WHAT IS, not WHAT SHOULD BE.
quote:
The first of the two strategic blunders that led to this war:
The Russian invasion of Ukraine resulted from two immense strategic blunders, Robert Service says. The first came on Nov. 10, when the U.S. and Ukraine signed a Charter on Strategic Partnership, which asserted America’s support for Kyiv’s right to pursue membership in the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. The pact made it likelier than ever that Ukraine would eventually join NATO—an intolerable prospect for Vladimir Putin. “It was the last straw,” Mr. Service says. Preparations immediately began for Russia’s so-called special military operation in Ukraine.
……….
The November agreement added heft to looser assurances Ukraine received at a NATO summit five months earlier that membership would be open to the country if it met the alliance’s criteria. Mr. Service characterizes these moves as “shambolic mismanagement” by the West, which offered Ukraine encouragement on the NATO question but gave no apparent thought to how such a tectonic move away from Moscow would go down with Mr. Putin. “Nothing was done to prepare the Ukrainians for the kind of negative response that they would get.”
LINK
An interesting twist is Zelensky said a few days ago he was told in private they weren't getting into NATO, but that the public appearance of that should be kept up. Why do that? Conservative Treehouse put forth the theory that we baited Russia into this conflict.
This post was edited on 3/23/22 at 9:18 pm
Posted on 3/23/22 at 9:15 pm to td01241
quote:
We can argue all day long about the justifications for Russia and their invasion. The reality is the way Ukraine is choosing to fight results in forcing Russia’s hand. The same way our hand was forced in Afghanistan. Choosing to wage a guerrilla warfare insurgency will result in much higher civilian casualties. Which is what this thread is about.
It forces Russia's hand because Russia won't abandon the conflict it initiated.
That idea that Russia has no choice but to bomb cities but Ukraine has a choice in that it can take fewer than all available measures to defend its country from overthrow is a ridiculous premise for debate.
Now, if you want to insert specific assumptions - like Russia not being a rational or moral actor who would even consider abandoning a bloody and likely unnecessary conflict and Ukraine perhaps being a more rational actor that could conceivably make difficult choices in order to save human lives, fine by me. But I'm not seeing anyone do that.
Posted on 3/23/22 at 9:16 pm to Rohan Gravy
Ukraine bombing their own people to get the US involved
This post was edited on 3/23/22 at 9:37 pm
Posted on 3/23/22 at 9:17 pm to Rohan Gravy
quote:
Does anybody remember WWII?
No, however I remember the bombings we conducted on Hanoi and other areas of North Vietnam. We rolled in with B52s and Navy A6s for months during Operation Rolling Thunder. Look this up. Estimated 2 million North Vietnamese(both military and civilian) dead.
If you have ever heard threatening rolls of thunder on the horizon, that's the sound I heard when the Stratofortresses bombed along the hills just north of the DMZ
This post was edited on 3/23/22 at 9:28 pm
Posted on 3/23/22 at 9:17 pm to Billy Rocks
quote:
Not defending Putin because he is and has always been a POS but a lot of what you are seeing is a direct result of the organization of Russia’s military.
Yeah I'm perfectly open to attributing civilian losses to incompetence rather than evil.
But, for the premise of this thread, many are suggesting that Putin and Russia are seeking to exert maximum pain on the populace, so we're sort of arguing in the alternative here.
Posted on 3/23/22 at 9:18 pm to Big Scrub TX
You really need to go watch the Putin Interviews.
What do you think we would do if Mexico or Canada entered a military pact with China?
What do you think we would do if Mexico or Canada entered a military pact with China?
Posted on 3/23/22 at 9:20 pm to Rohan Gravy
quote:
Does anybody remember WWII?
I'm sure he was speaking of the way the US conducts war today.
Posted on 3/23/22 at 9:20 pm to Billy Rocks
quote:
do not have any sympathy for either party in this conflict.
Not even aforementioned civilians?
Posted on 3/23/22 at 9:20 pm to GREENHEAD22
The Stone documentaries are pretty good. I feel like I need to know more about Donbass. Apparently, it has been pretty brutal the last eight years. Even if you got the commitment not to join NATO, I'm not sure what could have been done about Donbass and Crimea.
Posted on 3/23/22 at 9:20 pm to Azkiger
quote:
Times change. The statement "America doesn't endorse slavery" is just as true or as false as the statement you're referencing.
Total nonsense
Many posts in this thread have mentioned Iraq and other civilian deaths
I will say again
Explain JFK threatening nuclear war because the Soviets were moving into Cuba
That is real factual events.
Posted on 3/23/22 at 9:22 pm to Rohan Gravy
quote:
Just the other day, I watched one of the retired US Generals make the comment
“America doesn’t fight wars like that”
So you are holding this guy to his word on something the USA did 75 years ago? Dude wasn't even alive then. FWIW if I am at war I have no issue killing civilians if that is what it takes.
Posted on 3/23/22 at 9:23 pm to Billy Rocks
quote:
I do not have any sympathy for either party in this conflict. It is possible to examine the recent history surrounding what brought them to this point and conclude that there is plenty of fault on both sides.
I'm the opposite, I have sympathy for both sides.
More so the Ukrainian citizens whose lives have been turned upside down and/or threatened, but also Russian soldiers sent to die by a government that views them as expendable and Russian citizens who will be vilified.
Posted on 3/23/22 at 9:25 pm to Rohan Gravy
quote:
“America doesn’t fight wars like that”
Yeah we turn our backs on the Turks and leave them to be slaughtered. That's how WE do it.
Posted on 3/23/22 at 9:28 pm to Rohan Gravy
quote:I mean, if you don't see the context difference in between us doing strategic bombing in WWII vs countries that invaded and attacked other countries including the us, and which refused to surrender, prolonging a war that had already killed millions of people, and Russia invading it's neighbors, getting bogged down, and then just shelling cities in 2022 because they can't do anything else you are a retard.
We bombed the frick out of hundreds of thousands of Japanese civilians and cities
Posted on 3/23/22 at 9:30 pm to Rohan Gravy
Coincidentally WW2 was the last war we actually won outright.
Almost as if war is hell and the only way to truly win is to break the spirit of the enemy by destroying everything they care about
Almost as if war is hell and the only way to truly win is to break the spirit of the enemy by destroying everything they care about
Posted on 3/23/22 at 9:33 pm to Redbone
quote:
quote: almost
That's a very important word.
Nobody died.
You missed the point.
An enemy threatening your border deserves a response
Would you have rather Putin threaten a nuclear bomb?
Posted on 3/23/22 at 9:37 pm to narddogg81
So if you are the one attacked you can commit all the atrocities you want?
That sounds pretty retarded to me.
That sounds pretty retarded to me.
Page 3 of 6
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News