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Message
re: CDC just admitted 75% of counted Covid deaths weren’t caused by covid
Posted on 1/12/22 at 4:12 pm to Stonehog
Posted on 1/12/22 at 4:12 pm to Stonehog
quote:
It’s not a cashier at a gas station like most folks here but it’s good work.
Ha. Obviously the joke was, everyone has definitive anecdotal evidence via his or her relative nurse.
0
Posted on 1/12/22 at 4:56 pm to Aubie Spr96
quote:
This is what happens when you have a new virus and the 'treatment' protocol is to send them home until they can't breathe anymore.
I'm guessing that since the vast majority of these deaths had serious underlying conditions, that they were simply pulled forward and the number of deaths going forward will be below the average of the last several years
By and large I agree with the basic premises you are putting forward here, but those are really separate discussions from the topic at hand. Undoubtedly as we have learned more about the virus and how to treat it (and our bodies have learned to fight against it), mortality has gone down and will continue to go down. That doesn’t change the fact that many people did die. It’s not an accounting trick as is the implication of the OP.
How many years of life were lost is a different question. Obviously since no one is immortal, more people won’t die in the long run, but I’m not sure I’m willing to go so far as to completely negate the value of the life years that were taken away. Again, I think it’s a reasonable and valuable discussion to have relative to a cost-benefit analysis of all the actions taken in response to the virus, but, again, that wasn’t the topic at hand.
This post was edited on 1/12/22 at 4:58 pm
Posted on 1/12/22 at 5:00 pm to kennypowers
quote:
They are saying VACCINATED people that died had more than 4 comorbidities. For the ones of you eating up this nonsense - that means that the vaccinated people that died were already in really poor health. Which also means - go get your vaccine ya morons. It protects you.
Except that suffers from the same logic when applied to the non-vaccinated. The vast majority of the non-vaccinated had multiple co-morbidities. This isn’t a gotcha at all.
Posted on 1/12/22 at 5:01 pm to Stonehog
quote:
If you have high blood pressure
Nobody dies from high blood pressure. They die from strokes, heart failure, etc.
quote:
My brother in law is an ER nurse and he deals with these idiots
Sounds like you're an idiot too.
Posted on 1/12/22 at 5:03 pm to kennypowers
quote:
You're arguing against something I never suggested. What I'm pointing out is that the video the OP posted is taking a statement from the CDC and trying to make it sound like it was some gotcha moment about 75% of those people that died having 4 or more comorbidities.
Is that all you argued? Because I seem to recall you arguing that everybody should be vaccinated. In fact, that's where you called everyone a moron. Yeah, I'm pretty sure this is you -
"Which also means - go get your vaccine ya morons. It protects you."
So like I said before, you're calling people morons for doing precisely what you had just done because what the CDC acknowledged is not some sort of compelling argument for people that are not very obese, very old or very unwell to get vaccinated.
Posted on 1/12/22 at 5:08 pm to Mickey Goldmill
quote:
As it relates to this thread, the numbers are only for those vaccinated. The context that brought about this thread was a study done on vaccinated individuals.
Then why is the conclusion everyone should get vaccinated, when the study only applies to those already vaccinated?
What the misguided poster was doing, as I pointed out (but he still doesn't understand) - he's arguing the study only involved the vaxxed (which is correct), but then he makes the leap in logic that it is an argument for everybody to get vaccinated. See the problem with that? He's assuming that the vast majority of unvaccinated deaths don't also involve multiple serious comorbidities - not only is that not in the study, but it's also untrue.
Posted on 1/12/22 at 5:42 pm to loogaroo
quote:
So it was on par with the flu.
With all the truer large denominator (now divided by 4), it’s less
Posted on 1/12/22 at 5:45 pm to the808bass
That CDC data is all kinds of messed up
The rate of increase of deaths for YOUNGER people who we know didn’t die of COVID was up the same rate as all other older ages post-65
I mean, did you see that?
The rate of increase of deaths for YOUNGER people who we know didn’t die of COVID was up the same rate as all other older ages post-65
I mean, did you see that?
Posted on 1/12/22 at 5:49 pm to David_DJS
quote:
That’s not happening anywhere. If a person dies in a car wreck, they’re not waiting for a positive test and then filling out a death certificate with Covid listed as the cause of death.
Oh, really?
quote:
A man who died in a motorcycle crash was counted as a COVID-19 death in Florida, according to a new report from FOX 35 Orlando.
According to the report, Orange County Health Officer Dr. Raul Pino was asked whether two coronavirus victims in their 20s had any underlying medical conditions that could have potentially made them more susceptible to the virus.
Pino's answer was that one of the two people who was listed as a COVID death actually died in a motorcycle crash. Despite health officials knowing the man died in a motorcycle crash, it is unclear whether or not his death was removed from the overall count in the state.
Dr. Pino tells FOX 35 that one "could actually argue that it could have been the COVID-19 that caused him to crash."
LINK
Posted on 1/12/22 at 5:50 pm to David_DJS
quote:
You do not know what you're talking about.
Posters who believe in the status quo are more likely to think “There’s no way that’s happening. That would be stupid! The people in charge aren’t stupid. Ergo, it’s not happening.”
But they’re that stupid.
Posted on 1/12/22 at 5:51 pm to FlexDawg
You are repeating lies. She did not say that. The clip was edited by yellow journalists to make it sound that way. In the full clip she is speaking only of vaccinated people. This is the kind of yellow journalism that we hate when the MSM does it.
Posted on 1/12/22 at 5:51 pm to theunknownknight
quote:
The rate of increase of deaths for YOUNGER people who we know didn’t die of COVID was up the same rate as all other older ages post-65 I mean, did you see that?
Yes. It’s a mish mash of awfulness.
Posted on 1/12/22 at 5:52 pm to Penrod
quote:
This is the kind of yellow journalism that we hate when the MSM does it.
frick off with the “we.” You’re not us.
Posted on 1/12/22 at 6:18 pm to the808bass
quote:
Posters who believe in the status quo are more likely to think “There’s no way that’s happening. That would be stupid! The people in charge aren’t stupid. Ergo, it’s not happening.”
But they’re that stupid.
You're right. And sometimes those that believe in the status quo are really smart, but ignorant.
I have a brother. Brilliant guy. PhD in Medical Physics. Does research at a teaching hospital. Prominent on a global basis in certain imaging technology. Truly, truly brilliant. About 10 months ago in our family text thread he and I got into it about "Covid stats" - he went to great lengths explaining that the medical industry was different than other industries in that they really are super duper honest, aren't moved by politics whatsoever, and 100% about science ... and where Covid is concerned, my argument that a lot of people on the Covid scoreboard did not die because they contracted the virus was ludicrous because COD is "sacred" to the doctors and MEs that make those determinations, blah, blah, blah. I simply told him to google "death certificate matching program" and to specifically find who is, in fact, making the determinations on "Covid deaths" - and he came back to the thread in disbelief. I wouldn't say he was a convert at that point, but it was the first time he opened his mind up to the possibility that while Covid was a real virus that could do real harm, the hysteria and lockdowns/mandates surrounding it were far more about politics and economics than anybody's health.
Posted on 1/12/22 at 9:10 pm to David_DJS
quote:
He's assuming that the vast majority of unvaccinated deaths don't also involve multiple serious comorbidities - not only is that not in the study, but it's also untrue.
I will agree that he is relying on data not in the study and focusing on the wrong data point when it comes to the strongest argument for the vaccine coming from this study. That doesn’t make him wrong. It would be nice to have better context for the results, but I would not necessarily agree with you that the results relative to comorbidities are identical for the unvaxxed. Unfortunately I’m not sure there is a study that uses that exact metric as a comparison, so I would at least agree that it is inconclusive. The only thing I could find is that having just one high risk condition increased mortality risk by 50%. That’s a lower threshold than the 4+ conditions noted in this study, but not necessarily directly translatable.
The data point he should have highlighted was the 0.003% mortality rate for vaccinated individuals. That’s infinitesimally small. That’s around a 99% decrease relative to the % of the overall population that has died in the pandemic. There are holes in the data that would need to be plug to more precisely calculate the risk reduction (age distribution, geography, timing, etc.), but those are really more a matter of degree. They aren’t going to explain away all of a 99% reduction.
Posted on 1/12/22 at 9:12 pm to FlexDawg
At least four comorbidities. Wow.
Posted on 1/12/22 at 10:25 pm to the808bass
quote:
You’re not us.
You are right in the sense that I don’t traffic in lies like you do. I bet I could find posts from you criticizing the lying MSM, but they never told a bigger lie then the OP.
Posted on 1/12/22 at 10:26 pm to Penrod
quote:
traffic in lies like you do.
But you do. And you’re a bitch.
Posted on 1/12/22 at 10:28 pm to MikeTheTiger71
quote:
The data point he should have highlighted was the 0.003% mortality rate for vaccinated individuals.
That’s a point in time. That’s going to change over the next couple of weeks.
For breakthrough infections, the mortality is around 0.7%. Hopefully, Omicron is less deadly for the vaccinated than what we’ve seen to this point.
Posted on 1/12/22 at 10:37 pm to Penrod
quote:
find posts from you criticizing the lying MSM, but they never told a bigger lie then the OP.
This isn’t even close to being true
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