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re: Big misconception among many of you about why we Dems oppose The Wall
Posted on 1/19/19 at 9:01 pm to Cold Drink
Posted on 1/19/19 at 9:01 pm to Cold Drink
Nice effort- but I’m not reading all that. Because I don’t think the true reasons are nearly that complicated.
Explain to me why Charles Schumer favored the same suggestions Trump is now making a few short years ago- as did other leading Democrats- without re-writing the Old Testament.
This isn’t a complicated issue. If you have no borders, you have no country. It is true that borders, language, and culture is what defines a nation. I do not want to live in a country that resembles Latin America- or Europe.
Explain to me why Charles Schumer favored the same suggestions Trump is now making a few short years ago- as did other leading Democrats- without re-writing the Old Testament.
This isn’t a complicated issue. If you have no borders, you have no country. It is true that borders, language, and culture is what defines a nation. I do not want to live in a country that resembles Latin America- or Europe.
2
Posted on 1/19/19 at 9:02 pm to Cold Drink
Holy shite that was a rambling bunch of nonsense. someone forgot xes meds
Posted on 1/19/19 at 9:19 pm to oleheat
quote:
Nice effort- but I’m not reading all that. Because I don’t think the true reasons are nearly that complicated.
Democrats lie, and play the victim, constantly. This one uses exactly the same playbook, with a bunch of useless words in between, and a preface appealing to a "real conversation".
They're delusional, and can't ever be allowed to have power.
Posted on 1/19/19 at 9:35 pm to Cold Drink
I read all of that dribble, and I want my 3 minutes back. You are a complete idiot.
Posted on 1/19/19 at 10:02 pm to fly2fish
The wall may not be 100% successful, but it's far better than any solution the socialist democrats have proposed. That's because they simply ignore the illegal immigrant problem.
Posted on 1/19/19 at 10:08 pm to Cold Drink
quote:
It’s a Dog Whistle (emotional reason). If Trump wanted a comprehensive border security package that incidentally expanded fencing (I.e. The Wall by another name), we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
That is exactly what Trump wants. That is exactly what Trump has called for. So yes... yes we would be having this discussion.
Posted on 1/19/19 at 10:55 pm to Cold Drink
Didnt all the dems in congressional leadership previously support the construction of a physical barrier on the boarder many times in years past?
All your arguments boil down to "orange man bad. Cant give orange man win".
How about we just rewind the tape and hear all the numerous justifications the people running your party have already given? The only thing Trump is guilty of is plagiarism lol but the frothing NPCs are too stupid to make rational arguments regarding policy to notice the hypocrisy.
All your arguments boil down to "orange man bad. Cant give orange man win".
How about we just rewind the tape and hear all the numerous justifications the people running your party have already given? The only thing Trump is guilty of is plagiarism lol but the frothing NPCs are too stupid to make rational arguments regarding policy to notice the hypocrisy.
Posted on 1/20/19 at 12:42 am to Cold Drink
quote:
1) It’s a Dog Whistle (emotional reason). If Trump wanted a comprehensive border security package that incidentally expanded fencing (I.e. The Wall by another name), we wouldn’t be having this discussion. Instead, by repeating that we need A Wall - especially in light of many other comments about Mexico/Mexican Americans/The Border - he’s insulting Mexico/Mexicans and acting like they are some infestation we need to keep out. Again that might not be how he feels (or you feel), but that’s how it comes across to many of us. It’s important that we don’t back down in the face of that language. Not cool to talk about people that way.
The dog whistle here is that President Trump has not proposed a comprehensive solution. He has said all along that technology will be used to enhance the wall. He has NEVER said the wall is all we need. If you think about it, all of these politicians/celebrities who have walls around their homes also, no doubt, have electronic security systems, as well. The wall is not infallible, and neither is the technology. They complement each other and work best together. Let's build the wall. It will work. We know that.
For the Democrats, stopping the wall is about the 2020 election. They cannot have President Trump fulfill his #1 election promise. If he does, he will be very difficult to beat. The Democrats must stop it. It's that simple. They don't say that, of course. They come up with all the excuses. Fourth century technology. Ineffective. Racist. Ugly. You've heard them all. They have all of their followers parrot them ad nauseum. It's all nonsense. They just need to keep Trump from fulfilling his promises in order to make him seem ineffective. That's it. Simple.
This post was edited on 1/20/19 at 12:46 am
Posted on 1/20/19 at 12:55 am to Cold Drink
What a load of wind. I can paraphrase your whole wall of text. Trump wants it, he's bad, Dems care more about not letting Trump get a win than they do either border security or the functioning of the government. Also you think people are not sneaking across the massive unsecured parts of our border which is moronic. Also, a wall won't stop everybody so it's worthless even if it stops a significant portion. (If it interdicted 10% it would pay for itself in about 7 years through decreased cost burden from the illegals)
Plus you typed all that she without actually saying why the Democratic party wants the flood of immigrants. It's the cornerstone of their long term strategy to turn Texas blue, by letting masses of illegals in, let them have citizen babies, get the whole family on welfare through the kids (60% of household headed by illegals received public assistance through the kids, twice the rate of citizen headed households), so the kids will grow up dependent on the government and will vote Democratic. Just be honest about it
Plus you typed all that she without actually saying why the Democratic party wants the flood of immigrants. It's the cornerstone of their long term strategy to turn Texas blue, by letting masses of illegals in, let them have citizen babies, get the whole family on welfare through the kids (60% of household headed by illegals received public assistance through the kids, twice the rate of citizen headed households), so the kids will grow up dependent on the government and will vote Democratic. Just be honest about it
This post was edited on 1/20/19 at 12:59 am
Posted on 1/20/19 at 2:10 am to Cold Drink
If the borders wall is even half as effective as the OP’s wall of text at discouraging me from getting through it, we’ll be in pretty good shape.
Posted on 1/20/19 at 4:49 am to AUX3
quote:
Trumps reason: stop illegal stuff from crossing border...people, drugs, etc
One reason
Of course - there is always one primary reason - but there are usually a lot of corollaries that lend logic and substance for the primary goal.
I was just responding to the various reasons posited by the OP. I appreciate his willingness to completely explain his thought process - something completely rare on this forums and something that I greatly appreciate.
I always like to support such openness.
Posted on 1/20/19 at 5:11 am to Cold Drink
There's literally not a thing that is difficult to understand about the left's motives and tactics in this debate. That OP was an utter waste of time.
Posted on 1/20/19 at 5:16 am to Cold Drink
quote:
This is a probably I’ll-fated attempt at a reasonable exchange of opinions
Posted on 1/20/19 at 5:26 am to ChewyDante
quote:
That OP was an utter waste of time.
Perhaps - but I dont think the OP was trying to change anyone's mind - I think he just wanted to present in a very expansive way his own perception of what drives the DEMOCRAT party wrt 'the wall.'
I appreciated the insight = principally because it was not centered on attacking anyone or trying convince us we were neanderthal monsters. Just a moment of revealing his own thought process.
I am guilty of that same motive from time to time.
And yes - 99% of the time it is a waste of time. But time is all I have.
Posted on 1/20/19 at 5:33 am to Cold Drink
Let’s take these on one by one;
quote:Fail. Democrats use dog whistles on a consistent basis. It is their weapon of choice, particularly when they cannot win on the merits of their argument.
1) It’s a Dog Whistle (emotional reason).
quote:Fail. Democrats want government only on their terms. There is no negotiating with them in good faith.
2) It’s a bad precedent (political reason).
quote:Fail. It is absolutely necessary and a highly effective way to drive illegal immigrants to the crossing points putting them at less risk.
3) It’s unnecessary/ineffective (logical reason).
quote:Fail. The issues with our Southern neighbors start within their own culture. They have given into lawlessness and graft. It is an accepted norm for the most basic of services. We do not need that culture exported here.
4) Negative effect on border economies/culture (logical/emotional reasoning).
quote:Fail. Both parties waste money on the most trivial of programs with no reasonable chance of success. This can and will make a substantial difference and discourage other illegal immigrants from attempting to cross. Stay within your own borders and make your own country better.
5) It’s expensive (logical reason).
quote:Fail. The border is beautiful when two countries have mutual values and cultures and respect their territorial rights (see Canada and the United States). This is not the case with our Southern neighbors.
6) The border is beautiful; a Wall is ugly (emotional/logical reason).
quote:Your only positive point. Because at least here you are being truthful.
7) Trump wants it really bad (emotional).
Posted on 1/20/19 at 5:37 am to oleheat
That was pretty easy washt it?
Posted on 1/20/19 at 5:55 am to ChineseBandit58
quote:
Perhaps - but I dont think the OP was trying to change anyone's mind - I think he just wanted to present in a very expansive way his own perception of what drives the DEMOCRAT party wrt 'the wall.'
He said there's a lack of understanding on the right as to why Democrats oppose the wall. There isn't. He then listed all the exact same talking points we hear incessantly from the left in respect to the wall. Nothing new or insightful at all.
quote:
I appreciated the insight = principally because it was not centered on attacking anyone or trying convince us we were neanderthal monsters.
I'm not in the habit of offering praise to anyone for simply not smearing, insulting, and lying about others, though you are perhaps right that that aspect of his post was rather exceptional for the left when speaking on this issue.
Posted on 1/20/19 at 5:58 am to Cold Drink
quote:There is one reason Dems oppose the wall. It was a Trump campaign promise. That is It.
Cold Drink
quote:That is EXACTLY what Trump wants. Nothing more. Nothing less.
If Trump wanted a comprehensive border security package that incidentally expanded fencing (I.e. The Wall by another name), we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
quote:BUT, you then say "Now I’m not saying a Wall isn’t effective."
It’s unnecessary/ineffective (logical reason).
quote:Yet the truth holds a different and lethal consequence for illegal migrants. i.e.,
it already exists in all the appropriate (read: high traffic) areas. The parts with no Wall are generally those areas that are remote and hard to get to. Most people wanting to cross over will just cross through Juarez/El Paso or Matamoros/Brownsville.
quote:If you don't admit a wall located in that area would have saved many (perhaps all) of those lives, then you are simply being dishonest.
More bodies of immigrants being found near Texas border
Their numbers are rising at a startling rate. Deputies picked up 129 bodies last year
Immigrants illegally cross into southern Texas around the McAllen area, then smugglers drive them up SR 281 until they near a highway checkpoint about 17 miles south of Falfurrias, Gutierrez said. From there, they fan out on foot and cross through vast private ranches full of oak trees, shrubs, sand dunes and thorn-covered mesquite trees – treacherous terrain for even the fittest individuals, he said.
The immigrants often wear several layers of black clothing – warm-up pants under jeans and sweaters under long-sleeved shirts – so they don't get sliced up while fleeing agents through the thorn-filled brush, Gutierrez said. Those extra layers of clothing often lead to bodies overheating and dehydrating in temperatures that climb into the 100s by 11 a.m., he said. Authorities often find bodies stripped down to their underwear because the victims tried desperately to peel off the extra layers before succumbing to the heat. Some bodies are neatly buried under shade trees, to keep the remains away from turkey vultures and javelina, Gutierrez said. Others are dragged into the middle of dirt roads to be more easily found by passersby.
LINK
Dems, as you know, supported border security and a wall during every administration in the modern era. Every administration! No exceptions.
Now they oppose it with such venom they are willing to shut the Government down over the issue which amounts to nothing more than a budgetary rounding error? There is no excuse for their behavior.
Those chickens will come home to roost, as they should.
Posted on 1/20/19 at 6:03 am to Wolfhound45
quote:
quote:
7) Trump wants it really bad (emotional).
Your only positive point. Because at least here you are being truthful.
To be fair to the OP, I think he was giveing his perception of what drives the DEMOCRAT opposition - not really advocating that those reasons were valid.
Your short synopsis is spot on - as usual - in responding to every tortured 'reason' the DEMOCRATs put forth - but unless I am misled, the OP was not trying to convince us of the validity - only that this is how the "opposition' is trying to convince themselves that they are 'right.'
I am giving the OP every benefit of the doubt that I can muster up, primarily because of the overall tone of his OP.
This post was edited on 1/20/19 at 6:04 am
Posted on 1/20/19 at 6:21 am to ChewyDante
quote:
I'm not in the habit of offering praise to anyone for simply not smearing, insulting, and lying about others, though you are perhaps right that that aspect of his post was rather exceptional for the left when speaking on this issue.
In a normal world your observation would be correct - and natural.
But we have now entered a strange place in human evolution. It is no longer a 'normal world' = we are living in the threshold of the 'new normal' where a million years of human evolution is being discarded by the 'really smart' adolescents who grew up in amoral homes.
These geniuses can pinpoint with precision every point in human history 'where we went wrong' and if only they had been there then, we would already be living in magnificent utopia. It is their duty to remove from society those who do not beat themselves daily over their ancestral sins.
We are facing a turning point in human evolution - if the USA succumbs to this nonsense, the rest of the world has no chance to recover - the world will be under control of the fastest breeding population from the most poverty stricken and intellectually backwards regions of the planet.
Whenever I see someone from the 'other side' who even for a moment breaks from that mold, I feel obligated to give it praise and encouragement. To be honest, that may be our only salvation - short of physical war.
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