re: Big misconception among many of you about why we Dems oppose The Wall

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Mexico/Mexican Americans/The Border - he’s insulting Mexico/Mexicans and acting like they are some infestation we need to keep out.

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Not necessarily just Mexicans but the amount of illegal immigration coming across the Mexican border and taxing our system is an infestation that needs to be kept out. That's kind of the whole point. Not sure how anyone could logically disagree.

Unless it's just because you can afford to live far away from the areas they infect and know you won't have to deal with it in your lifetime.

Make no mistake, it will take time but it will eventually cause our Republic to collapse. Don't believe me, read a little bit about the fall of Rome.

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It’s unnecessary/ineffective (logical reason). I can speak from a lot of personal experience here. I’ve spent a lot of time in Mexico (all over Mexico, but no where more than Juarez) and along the US Border.

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So you have crossed the border illegally multiple times by going over or under the wall that is in certain parts?

The socialistic Dems oppose the wall because they approve and benefit from illegal immigrant parasites entering the US. They offer Zero credible solutions because they approve. Thanks for someone standing up for US law Mr Trump.

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They are unable to grasp that any issue is anything other than binary.

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well said.

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Meh, President Trump and his supporters believe that we need stronger legal checkpoints, a physical wall and drones as well as other new technologies to patrol the entire border.

Can you grasp that we need all of those things in order to keep our southern border secure?

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Just admit it. You know it would shut off millions of illegal votes that support your dreams of socialism.

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Thread was over after the first response.

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Big misconception among many of you about why we Dems oppose The Wall
Well written definition of your position. I appreciate that.

On iPad so response may be more terse than my normal posts. If you want more detail on any of my response I will follow up when I get back to laptop.

First The dog whistle is your most important reason and I agree. Dems are totally dedicated to framing very issue as a racist outrage. It is simply a lie. And if your side cannot abandon that strategy you will never convince any common sense person that you have a logica reason for anything. Your starting position on every issue is that WE are racist monsters and must be annihilated. This is not a rational starting point for any kind of compromise.

This is physically tiring. Will return on my laptop later.

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I'm back -

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I’m not trying to change any minds, but I was hoping to expand the discussion a bit beyond the normal caricatures of each other. I know I’m not the only person who has grown exclhausted with the low quality of political discourse these days.

Would like to hear your further thoughts if you’re so inclined, but you might be surprised (or maybe not) that we might not be so far off when it comes to Team Blue making everything about race. And I’m not the only Team Blue person with that opinion.

That said - as someone who travels throughout Mexico quite frequently(work and pleasure) and has grown quite fond of the place, I can’t help but feel a little queasy with some of the underlying attitudes that many people have toward them. It’s precisely the fact that The Wall is so pointless (in my opinion of course) that makes it seem - frankly - rude. Like the only real benefit of it is to give a giant middle finger to Mexico.

Again - that’s how it comes across to me and others; I’m not saying that it’s the intention of those saying it

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you might be surprised (or maybe not) that we might not be so far off when it comes to Team Blue making everything about race. And I’m not the only Team Blue person with that opinion.

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OK - this is a start. But I can assure you there will never be any peaceful cooperation between the two parties as long as the primary tenet of the DEMOCRAT party is that anyone who opposes any vestige of any one of their socialist goals is doing so only because all us conservatives hate blacks/browns/women/etc/etc/etc

As long as that is the long pole in your tent there is only one way it can be resolved and that is by total annihilation of one side by the other.

The problem here is that there are evil people on both sides - always have been - always will be - but there are not 10,000 racists/misogynists/etc alive who are on the conservative side. The other 60,000,000 of us are not about to lie down and let your side trample us into the ignomity of historical rebuke.

This impasse is entirely on your side to fix - there is no further compromise or retreat that we can yield.

2) It’s a bad precedent (political reason). Dems don’t want to create a precedent where Trump can get his way by threatening a shut down. “If we give him this then what’s it going to be next time?”

This works both ways - some degree of it is inherent in politics - but there is no doubt that your side is taking this to an extreme. Any disagreement always has to be base on some kind of reality if you want to be taken seriously. We opposed Obamacare - not because it was Obama but because we disagreed with the provision being implemented.

You are opposing anything Trump does because it is Trump and he won the last election. You were planning impeachment scenarios before his administration even began. This is unhealthy - reducing politics to dueling personalities to the exclusion of everything else.

Trump is a deal maker - you can get a great portion of what you always said you wanted just by compromising. You would rather do without your prior demands than to allow Trump to fulfill one of his campaign features. Not a good governing strategy.

3) It’s unnecessary/ineffective (logical reason). I can speak from a lot of personal experience here. I’ve spent a lot of time in Mexico (all over Mexico, but no where more than Juarez) and along the US Border. First, anyone who really wants to get to the US can and will get here with relative ease. You can just drive or fly here like anyone else, and countless people cross over and back every day. The idea that people are riding over on donkeys through the desert is just not an accurate portrayal. And at any rate, having to ride a donkey through the desert is a much tougher barrier than a Wall.

This is merely an opinion without any factual basis. It is a manufacture opinion constructed to achieve a political victory rather than a governing principle.

There is nothing more effective than a wall to prevent casual trespass. it can be supplemented by other means to make it more efficient - but there is absolutely nothing that can be done to protect against trespass that does not include a wall. Nothing short of deadly measures such as land mine, machine gun emplacements etc.

Even trying to argue that a wall is 'ineffective' is pure gibberish.

Yes - walls can be defeated in some measure - you can dig under them crawl over them, etc - but the point is that it slows down the process, makes the transit more labor or financially expensive. Just having to walk around a wall requires more energy than walking across where there is no wall.

This dog won't hunt - it is merely a deflection from reason # 2.

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I notice that the general sentiment among the conservative crowd (here and IRL) is that we Dems oppose The Wall because “we want open borders” or we want a bunch of people coming in or something along those lines. I can tell you that this is not why we oppose it. Not even close.

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This is either dishonest or you are in denial. I don’t pretend that ALL Democrats support open borders,!but your leadership does and every attempt to limit illegal immigration has been opposed by the left. It’s how we arrived where we are.

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Democratic opposition to the wall has no thing to do with immigration, legal or illega

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If Trump wanted a comprehensive border security package that incidentally expanded fencing (I.e. The Wall by another name), we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

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This is hilariously wrong.

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2) It’s a bad precedent (political reason). Dems don’t want to create a precedent where Trump can get his way by threatening a shut down. “If we give him this then what’s it going to be next time?”

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This would be fair except for that public meeting where Trump told Pelosi and Schumer tonfund the wall in the budget. A simple negotiation where they get something and Trump got wall funding would have prevented this. And that threat of precedent would have never existed. No, the Dems wanted this shutdown at the time. They regret it now, but this was intentional.

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3) It’s unnecessary/ineffective (logical reason). I can speak from a lot of personal experience here. I’ve spent a lot of time in Mexico (all over Mexico, but no where more than Juarez) and along the US Border. First, anyone who really wants to get to the US can and will get here with relative ease. You can just drive or fly here like anyone else, and countless people cross over and back every day. The idea that people are riding over on donkeys through the desert is just not an accurate portrayal. And at any rate, having to ride a donkey through the desert is a much tougher barrier than a Wall

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This is hilariously wrong.

I’m bored with your post and but I will acknowledge your last point.

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7) Trump wants it really bad (emotiona)

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This is the #1 reason behind simply wanting open borders.

if you have list 7 reasons it would mean one is searching for a reason. I would have been cool with one reason because that’s what it should be.

Trumps reason: stop illegal stuff from crossing border...people, drugs, etc

One reason

Good luck with that.