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Posted on 1/5/25 at 9:38 am to Bunk Moreland
I want to see a statement from the doctors that worked on the victims of the October 7 attack.
Posted on 1/5/25 at 9:44 am to Grassy1
quote:
it's now a pure "reap what you sow" phenomenon.
---
I'm okay with that stance.
quote:You say you're "okay with that stance." But your subsequent comments call to question elements you are actually okay with.
Meanwhile putting the troops, and probably American citizens in harms way (as we probably saw in NOLA on New Years Day).
Re: Putting American citizens in harms way ... Again, reap what you sow.
If ISIS wants to murder infidels, there must be dire consequences in response. Consequences delivering tenfold any terror ISIS desires to inflict on the West.
If you assume that backing away from such action, in any form, or genteel conversation in any form, is the ticket to ride with these folks, you are sorely mistaken. If you think Israel being over-run and converted into an Iranian-style muslim theocracy would end Islamists' desire to murder "infidels," you're sorely mistaken.
Again, I get the doctor's desire to end the savagery. I get it! I do.
But what neither you nor he get, is if the Gaza incursion ends today, if Israel backs out of Gaza this hour, by this evening the surviving subhominids responsible for Oct 7th will be plotting the next Jewish mass fatality. They do not understand anything except the dissuasion of crushing brutality.
It simply is what it is.
----
Back in the Reagan period, we were subjected to atrocities against our personnel in the ME. The Soviets really weren't.
Why?
Because we approached Islamic adversaries in that instance with politesse, grievance dialogue, restraint, and the softest touch options we could. We imagined, just as we imagine now, that approach would engender respect and goodwill. However, in the Reagan period, bombings and repeated kidnappings ensued.
But not for the USSR.
There was but one kidnapping of USSR reps by Islamists in exchange for demands. The Soviets abided none of the demands. Instead they kidnapped family members of the terrorists with the premise, release ours, and we'll release yours. The Islamists were slow to react, so the Soviets sent them a box containing their leader's father's severed testicles, and an accompanying audio-visual. All Soviet hostages were released post-haste. None were ever again taken.
It's a nasty, inhumane story reflecting the actual facts and how to effectively address them. Past is prologue.
This post was edited on 1/5/25 at 9:46 am
Posted on 1/5/25 at 10:06 am to dgnx6
quote:
You should go fight in Gaza for your Muslim brothers.
Lots of people seemed willing to go to Ukraine to fight, why won’t they go to Gaza to fight?
Where’s your crazy leftists trying to recruit militias to Gaza?
Which part of my words make you believe that I'm a "leftist", my friend and fellow citizen.
The part about not using American tax dollars to support Israel, or the part about not wanting Americans not to die in the streets of New Orleans?
Posted on 1/5/25 at 10:39 am to Grassy1
It is very VERY difficult for any US policy-maker to deviate from the exact and detailed list of Orders from Israel to the USA. Any US policy-maker who dares try to make Israel do things differently will have a strong challenger who wants him fired or replaced - and his new political enemies will not necessarily be Jewish - because, remember - it's part of the American Religion, which is Protestantism.
America's Religion is Protestantism. Protestantism teaches that God and the Bible wants the modern State of Israel to do whatever it pleases.
US Policy towards Israel is guided by Religious beliefs, not by Realpolitik or other traditional diplomatic methods. So, once you understand that our own Religion tells us to follow Israel, you can understand US Policy towards Israel.
America's Religion is Protestantism. Protestantism teaches that God and the Bible wants the modern State of Israel to do whatever it pleases.
US Policy towards Israel is guided by Religious beliefs, not by Realpolitik or other traditional diplomatic methods. So, once you understand that our own Religion tells us to follow Israel, you can understand US Policy towards Israel.
Posted on 1/5/25 at 10:41 am to Grassy1
No, I don't agree with that.
Posted on 1/5/25 at 10:45 am to Champagne
quote:
It is very VERY difficult for any US policy-maker to deviate from the exact and detailed list of Orders from Israel to the USA. Any US policy-maker who dares try to make Israel do things differently will have a strong challenger who wants him fired or replaced - and his new political enemies will not necessarily be Jewish - because, remember - it's part of the American Religion, which is Protestantism.
America's Religion is Protestantism. Protestantism teaches that God and the Bible wants the modern State of Israel to do whatever it pleases.
US Policy towards Israel is guided by Religious beliefs, not by Realpolitik or other traditional diplomatic methods. So, once you understand that our own Religion tells us to follow Israel, you can understand US Policy towards Israel.
I agree with most of that.
We are cucks to Israel. We are an Israel First nation.
Let's all admit that.
We'll watch to see if Trump sucks off Netanyahu as hard as Biden.
Posted on 1/5/25 at 10:55 am to NC_Tigah
Hmm. That's a lot to respond to, but I will do my best.
Why does ISIS want to murder infidels? Why are we even on their map? Surely not because we installed a government in Iran in 1953? What were we doing? We have injected ourselves into their friction. You're right, there will be consequences as long as we do, and no doubt, we will pay the price for many years forward.
Like you, I don't know this either way. But us getting ourselves in their disputes has not and will not solve this. But it certainly cost us plenty to try.
I don't disagree. And I don't really care. Let Israel live or die in this land if that's what they choose to do. What does this have to do with America or Americans?
What need does the US have to be in the ME, either hostile or non-hostile? What do we need from there?
quote:
Re: Putting American citizens in harms way ... Again, reap what you sow.
If ISIS wants to murder infidels, there must be dire consequences in response. Consequences delivering tenfold any terror ISIS desires to inflict on the West.
Why does ISIS want to murder infidels? Why are we even on their map? Surely not because we installed a government in Iran in 1953? What were we doing? We have injected ourselves into their friction. You're right, there will be consequences as long as we do, and no doubt, we will pay the price for many years forward.
quote:
If you assume that backing away from such action, in any form, or genteel conversation in any form, is the ticket to ride with these folks, you are sorely mistaken. If you think Israel being over-run and converted into an Iranian-style muslim theocracy would end Islamists' desire to murder "infidels," you're sorely mistaken.
Like you, I don't know this either way. But us getting ourselves in their disputes has not and will not solve this. But it certainly cost us plenty to try.
quote:
But what neither you nor he get, is if the Gaza incursion ends today, if Israel backs out of Gaza this hour, by this evening the surviving subhominids responsible for Oct 7th will be plotting the next Jewish mass fatality. They do not understand anything except the dissuasion of crushing brutality.
It simply is what it is.
I don't disagree. And I don't really care. Let Israel live or die in this land if that's what they choose to do. What does this have to do with America or Americans?
quote:
Why?
Because we approached Islamic adversaries in that instance with politesse, grievance dialogue, restraint, and the softest touch options we could. We imagined, just as we imagine now, that approach would engender respect and goodwill. However, in the Reagan period, bombings and repeated kidnappings ensued.
But not for the USSR.
There was but one kidnapping of USSR reps by Islamists in exchange for demands. The Soviets abided none of the demands. Instead they kidnapped family members of the terrorists with the premise, release ours, and we'll release yours. The Islamists were slow to react, so the Soviets sent them a box containing their leader's father's severed testicles, and an accompanying audio-visual. All Soviet hostages were released post-haste. None were ever again taken.
It's a nasty, inhumane story reflecting the actual facts and how to effectively address them. Past is prologue.
What need does the US have to be in the ME, either hostile or non-hostile? What do we need from there?
Posted on 1/5/25 at 10:55 am to Grassy1
My thoughts on the Israeli/Palestine issue are: if you support Israel or if you support Palestine you are wrong. If your opinion is that one side carries more blame than the other and think that moral inequity entitles the other side to assume a victory then you are wrong.
The last 75 years of diplomatic quagmire prove my position and the assertion above correct.
The last 75 years of diplomatic quagmire prove my position and the assertion above correct.
Posted on 1/5/25 at 10:55 am to Champagne
quote:
No, I don't agree with that.
I'm sorry, I'm not sure what you don't agree with.
Posted on 1/5/25 at 12:36 pm to Grassy1
quote:Because they are celebrated for doing so, and in many cases, their families are heavily rewarded.
Why does ISIS want to murder infidels?
quote:1953 was a very different time. As you may know, the Brits aided Iran's full independence from Ottoman influence following WWI. Despite that Iran partially allied with Germany in WWII, and after a tumultuous decade, decided to nationalize all western oil assets in the early 1950s. Big mistake. That stupidity predictably led to reinstatement of the Shaw in 1953.
Surely not because we installed a government in Iran in 1953?
quote:All involved oil and prevention of Soviet ME influence.
But us getting ourselves in their disputes
quote:World economic stability, aka free flow of oil. As you intimate, our involvement over there is anything but smooth. However, it is a two sided coin. Economic cooperation was always a possibility. Even with the Obama/Biden/Kerry attempts to befriend though, Islamists continue to screw that pooch. They have no interest in anything but expanding their caliphate by any means necessary. Those actions have consequences. Sort of the same basis that may get Panama burned if they choose to FAFO.
What need does the US have to be in the ME
Posted on 1/5/25 at 12:37 pm to Grassy1
quote:
Surely, you do understand that we loan Israel the funds
Get it straight
Posted on 1/5/25 at 12:39 pm to Grassy1
quote:
How about we do that without US tax dollars going to Israel to buy US weapons, and US troops surrounding the region?
I don't have a problem with the IDF buying weapons from the US. We should limit direct financial support to the whole region. Any arab country that fails to condemn Palestinians for the acts of terrorism they commit should gave 100% of US foreign aid cut off and have sanctions imposed upon them.
Posted on 1/5/25 at 12:39 pm to Grassy1
quote:
Meanwhile putting the troops, and probably American citizens in harms way (as we probably saw in NOLA on New Years Day).
You lost me on New Orleans
Posted on 1/5/25 at 12:41 pm to Grassy1
quote:
I hope you don't mind your tax dollars supporting it then.
Loan them all they need.
quote:
And your American soldiers dieing for this cause.
No US servicemen in this fight that I have seen
quote:
And American citizens dieing in this friction, as in NOLA 3 days ago.
Hajis don't need an excuse, it is their SOP
Posted on 1/5/25 at 12:45 pm to Grassy1
I hate that innocents are killed. But what do you propose Israel do - surrender? The enemy inside and under schools and hospitals - and somehow they are the heros? WTF?
Posted on 1/5/25 at 12:50 pm to Grassy1
Sounds like he should be on a watch list for aiding and abetting known terrorists. Maybe he can provide them treatment from within an Israeli prison.
Posted on 1/5/25 at 1:53 pm to Marquesa
quote:
I hate that innocents are killed. But what do you propose Israel do - surrender? The enemy inside and under schools and hospitals - and somehow they are the heros? WTF?
Great question!
I propose that Israel defend itself! Itself, themself, the key word is self.
You do understand that the US sends Israel more US taxpayer dollars than any other country, right?
And you do understand that they in turn, buy military weapons from US contractors with those US taxpayer dollars, right? (no conflict of interest there, surely)
And you understand that the US military, with yours and my ships and planes, and brothers and fathers, and sisters are staffing those vehicles and bases?
Israel moved into this region and decided to start them a country right there. They knew and accepted the risk and consequences. What does this have to do with you, I, all other US taxpayers?
Do you realize the financial and human life costs this has to Americans?
I don't care where either side hides, or if they choose to kill each other. Just don't bring Americans into it.
And you realize that the idiot that killed 15 Americans on the street of NOLA 3 days ago, did so in act of anger/hatred toward the actions of the US?
Do you think he will be the last angry one? As we help Israel kill and maim tens of thousands of children in their region. Do you think they will forget?
That's my WTF.
I do appreciate your question, and taking the time to respond.
Posted on 1/5/25 at 1:58 pm to Hogbit
quote:
Surely, you do understand that we loan Israel the funds
Get it straight
Ha! Yes, loan is certainly a word that could be used (but not the one I used).
Most of those dollars certainly make their back into American's pockets.
Those Americans in DC, and Richmond, VA. A loan indeed.
Posted on 1/5/25 at 1:59 pm to Grassy1
quote:
I propose that Israel defend itself! Itself, themself, the key word is self.
But you radical leftists seem to disagree when it comes to flying an Ukraine flag in your yards.
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