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re: A jury decided they were not guilty. A judge sentenced them to life in prison anyway
Posted on 11/28/23 at 10:24 pm to Jake88
Posted on 11/28/23 at 10:24 pm to Jake88
quote:so the IP combs through cases and chooses to select more black cases because… optics? It has nothing to do with the vast majority of inmates being black? Odds tell us that if more black people are in jail, more black people have also been wrongfully convicted…. Especially considering it has and continues to happen with regularity.
The Innocence project chooses their cases. So, they choose to work cases where the defendant was black 60% of the time.
Without
quote:
ANY evidence of guilt?
What evidence of guilt were you able to uncover? I haven’t seen any.
quote:unfortunately, white people are also wrongfully convicted. I imagine It has happened to people of every race and creed.
You post as if it never happens to whites.
This post was edited on 11/28/23 at 10:25 pm
2
Posted on 11/28/23 at 10:37 pm to Robin Masters
quote:
You really think it’s because they were black or because they were poor so they can’t afford top notch defense and are part of a demographic that commits a lot of crime so mistaken identity become a recurring issue?
I think it’s because they are black and likely couldn’t afford adequate legal representation. .
Posted on 11/28/23 at 10:39 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
hink it’s because they are black and likely couldn’t afford adequate legal representation. .
Like Oj Simpson?
Or Kobe ?
Oh wait.
This post was edited on 11/28/23 at 10:42 pm
Posted on 11/28/23 at 10:45 pm to Robin Masters
quote:
Like Oj Simpson? Or Kobe ?
OJ and Kobe couldn’t afford adequate legal representation?
Posted on 11/28/23 at 10:48 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
and Kobe couldn’t afford adequate legal representation?
They aren’t black?
Posted on 11/28/23 at 10:51 pm to Robin Masters
Did you read the comment you quoted?
quote:
hink it’s because they are black and likely couldn’t afford adequate legal representation. .
Posted on 11/28/23 at 10:54 pm to 4cubbies
quote:Because of politics, absolutely.
so the IP combs through cases and chooses to select more black cases because… optics?
quote:So then the number plays the greater role in wrongful convictions and not race. Has anyone credible done a study of the number of wrongful convictions by race based on total convictions? Doubtful, because you'll only get some of those exonerated that you choose to work on.
if more black people are in jail, more black people have also been wrongfully convicted….
quote:None. That's my point. You can't either. You'd have to examine every case you're discussing or suggesting had no evidence to know if your claim is true.
What evidence of guilt were you able to uncover? I haven’t seen any
quote:Well, this was one of my points.
unfortunately, white people are also wrongfully convicted. I imagine It has happened to people of every race and creed
Interestingly, one left wing group notes that the top six states that incarcerate blacks at much higher rates than whites are NJ, WI, CT, CA, RI, and ME. Those are all 9x the incarceration rates. The lowest disparities are found in LA, TN, TX, AR, KY, AL, GA, MS, and HI. The states with the lowest disparities are Red States except for Hawaii. Suggests to me that it's not about race.
This says nothing about the fact that blacks are, per government statistics, more likely to be involved in criminal activity. That also accounts for the higher per capita incarceration rates.
This post was edited on 11/28/23 at 11:01 pm
Posted on 11/28/23 at 10:56 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
hink it’s because they are black and likely couldn’t afford adequate legal representation. .
Great, so it’s not because they are black. Glad you see it accurately.
Posted on 11/28/23 at 11:17 pm to Jake88
quote:They go hand in hand in this situation.
So then the number plays the greater role in wrongful convictions and not race.
quote:
None. That's my point. You can't either. You'd have to examine every case you're discussing or suggesting had no evidence to know if your claim is true.
Are you implying that every outlet/person and member of the jury that acquitted them is intentionally lying about there being no evidence of guilt?
quote:This is interesting and not what I expected at all.
Interestingly, one left wing group notes that the top six states that incarcerate blacks at much higher rates than whites are NJ, WI, CT, CA, RI, and ME. Those are all 9x the incarceration rates.
quote:
The lowest disparities are found in LA, TN, TX, AR, KY, AL, GA, MS, and HI. The states with the lowest disparities are Red States except for Hawaii. Suggests to me that it's not about race.
There are other correlations that can be made. You removed the source link before I could click on it so I googled for myself.
quote:
Black people are incarcerated at higher rates than white people.
One in every 36 Black people in Wisconsin are in prison; Black people make up less than 7 percent of the state’s population.
Hawaii has Black people imprisoned “more than two times the rate of whites,” and the state has a 2.2 percent Black population.
It looks like it’s about race.
LINK /
This post was edited on 11/28/23 at 11:18 pm
Posted on 11/28/23 at 11:27 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
They go hand in hand in this situation
quote:
It looks like it’s about race
Not if the fact remains that black people are more involved with crime per capita.
It looks like it's financially based. The states with the least difference also have higher numbers of lower class whites. Poorer people are more apt to crime per capita as well. The disparity stems from higher propensity of criminal involvement along with lower financial status.
quote:This alone means nothing. The vast majority of convictions are accurate. For this to suggest incarceration was racially motivated you'd have to have a ridiculously large number of false convictions. That doesn't happen in those numbers. The crimes are being committed by the convicted.
One in every 36 Black people in Wisconsin are in prison; Black people make up less than 7 percent of the state’s population.
This post was edited on 11/28/23 at 11:34 pm
Posted on 11/28/23 at 11:39 pm to Jake88
quote:they are arrested for more crime per capita.
ot if the fact remains that black people are more involved with crime per capita.
quote:
The disparity stems from higher propensity of criminal involvement along with lower financial status.
I don’t think that tracks.
Edit; this is a better map:
Lots of Black poverty in WI but not Hawaii. This post was edited on 11/28/23 at 11:51 pm
Posted on 11/29/23 at 12:16 am to 4cubbies
quote:Because they are criminally involved more per capita. That's a fact.
they are arrested for more crime per capita
quote:And Hawaii has a lower disparity. Hence the financial element. The southern states have lower disparities because there are more poor whites. Again, finances and criminal involvement are linked. That's a fact.
Lots of Black poverty in WI but not Hawaii
Posted on 11/29/23 at 1:28 am to RollTide1987
quote:
You mean besides pleading guilty to killing someone? Because an innocent person has never done this before?
You said "absolutely no evidence". Now you are moving the goal posts.
Posted on 11/29/23 at 5:35 am to Eurocat
Has to be more to this.
If a judge can put aside the jurys verdict, what's the point of having a jury?
A trial by jury is a constitutional right, can't see this holding up.
If a judge can put aside the jurys verdict, what's the point of having a jury?
A trial by jury is a constitutional right, can't see this holding up.
Posted on 11/29/23 at 5:52 am to 4cubbies
quote:
It’s possible that details were left out, but America has a lengthy track record of punishing black guys without any evidence of guilt.
If blacks are wrongfully convicted at 7.5 times the rate of whites, yet commit 9.0 times the crimes, then one of two things are actually true.
More whites are being wrongfully convicted, or more blacks are getting off when they shouldnt.
Statistics are a hell of a thing when you understand them.
Posted on 11/29/23 at 5:58 am to 4cubbies
quote:
Is it really that hard to believe that two black guys were railroaded for killing a white cop?
No harder to believe than a white cop getting railroaded for trying to apprehend a black male ODing in fentanol.
Posted on 11/29/23 at 6:00 am to 4cubbies
quote:I did. It's in the link I provided earlier in the thread.
can you link the confession for me?
quote:
A state grand jury indicted Richardson and Claiborne for capital murder; Richardson reached an agreement with the commonwealth, pleading guilty in exchange for prosecutors reducing his charge to involuntary manslaughter. Claiborne pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor charge of accessory after the fact.
Posted on 11/29/23 at 6:05 am to Eurocat
quote:
n 2001, Richardson and Claiborne went to trial. A jury found them not guilty of officer Gibson’s murder, but guilty of selling crack.
But in an unusual move, District Judge Robert E. Payne sentenced Richardson and Claiborne to life in prison using “acquitted conduct sentencing,” a legal mechanism approved by the U.S. Supreme Court in 1996. In that case, known as Watts, the court ruled that a jury’s acquittal does not prevent a judge from using the conduct the defendant was acquitted of against them when sentencing them for another charge.
Posted on 11/29/23 at 6:30 am to 4cubbies
quote:
It’s possible that details were left out, but America has a lengthy track record of punishing black guys without any evidence of guilt.
There are several posts I could have replied to in order to post this, but this was the first one to start this particular conversation, so...
Every discussion about black people and crime goes exactly the way this one is going, which is why nothing ever changes with regard to this topic.
One side will not admit that the US justice system is vulnerable to bias and that bias is frequently exercised against black people and the other side will not admit that black people at least partially have earned a bias against them because black culture in America is violent and more criminal than mainstream culture.
Both are true.
Nothing ever changes in the black community because they and the white liberals who defend them put the blame 100% on the system and nothing ever changes in the courts and on the streets with cops because too many people defend them regardless of what they do and refuse to believe that certain groups tend to get treated differently.
This is going exactly the same way. Y'all might as well give up because neither side is going to budge an inch. I've watched too many iterations of this same argument to believe otherwise.
This post was edited on 11/29/23 at 6:31 am
Posted on 11/29/23 at 6:35 am to 4cubbies
quote:
Is it really that hard to believe that two black guys were railroaded for killing a white cop?
In the last 20 years? Hell yeah, that's hard to believe.
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