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Started By
Message
re: Home defense shotgun
Posted on 8/28/18 at 8:28 am to RATeamWannabe
Posted on 8/28/18 at 8:28 am to RATeamWannabe
A 16 inch barrel?
3
Posted on 8/28/18 at 8:37 am to RATeamWannabe
quote:
I'll cherry pick when its what you did by stating its a 223 issue first.
That's not what I said. I said for OUR APPLICATION the .223 isn't the best choice. The very first thing that I said in that paragraph is giving support to that person choice to use that round.
quote:
I hear you loud and clear, but the over penetration issue with the .223/5.56 and the way OUR house is laid out (kid bedrooms on the far side of the house) is too much of a concern for us to go the full AR route.
I guess I should have been more clear and stated that I was talking about using ANY high velocity rifle ammunition in this situation, and not just singled out everyone's favorite round. BUT, I did end that paragraph by saying...
quote:
But the over penetration issue exists with any useful caliber/load that would be considered for home defense.
So I hardly singled out the .223.
And FWIW, most of the tests that show less penetration by .223 rounds vs other calibers used soft or hollow points in the .223 vs ball ammunition in other calibers. Not exactly fair tests IMHO.
The bottom line here is, if you are ever in a situation where you have to discharge a weapon in your home, you'd better make dang sure what is behind your target before you pull the trigger.
This post was edited on 8/28/18 at 8:39 am
Posted on 8/28/18 at 8:38 am to Pat Sajak
quote:
A 16 inch barrel?
Shhh. Don't tell the feds....
Posted on 8/28/18 at 8:38 am to Pat Sajak
IF, and its a big IF, an intruder isn't injured/incapacitated by various legos/shoes/backpacks/airplanes and hotwheels he steps on just inside the door, I'll have to decide if I want to shoot him with a 9mm or an 870 youth 20 gauge with #1 buck. 
Posted on 8/28/18 at 8:46 am to Pat Sajak
I dont know where you got that from
Posted on 8/28/18 at 8:51 am to Huntinguy
quote:
IF, and its a big IF, an intruder isn't injured/incapacitated by various legos/shoes/backpacks/airplanes and hotwheels he steps on just inside the door, I'll have to decide if I want to shoot him with a 9mm or an 870 youth 20 gauge with #1 buck.
Isn't that the truth!
I guess I should have said, the next line of defense is the dog. My wife, who is a member of the "Well armed women"'s group here spends a fair amount of time during the day at home alone. After we got our dog (he was a "rescue"), we wondered what he'd do if someone came into our house he didn't know. So I put on a hoody and ski mask and snuck in one of our back doors. I started creeping around the bedroom and made enough noise the dog heard me, the next thing my wife said was, "Get'em Wrigley..." and our normally mild mannered dog came charging in barking and raising Cain. Good dog Rigs. Good dog...
Posted on 8/28/18 at 9:00 am to Lonnie Utah
This is why I prefer the kids upstairs. I’ve got my uzi and anytime I hear a sound just spray and pray through my walls. Got a busy handyman...
When was the last time someone got shot by a homeowners miss? I’ve never heard of it happening to be honest.
Has there been a home intruder shot with bird shot that hurt the homeowner?
The best home defense gun is whatever you feel most comfortable using. That’s why I use my Judge...
When was the last time someone got shot by a homeowners miss? I’ve never heard of it happening to be honest.
Has there been a home intruder shot with bird shot that hurt the homeowner?
The best home defense gun is whatever you feel most comfortable using. That’s why I use my Judge...
Posted on 8/28/18 at 9:11 am to SouthernInsanity
TAVOR TS12
Posted on 8/28/18 at 10:06 am to Lonnie Utah
quote:
I hear you loud and clear, but the over penetration issue with the .223/5.56 and the way OUR house is laid out (kid bedrooms on the far side of the house) is too much of a concern for us to go the full AR route.
I strongly encourage all you folks who have not watched the videos to do so - watch the 5.56mm penetration with drywall videos compared to other ammo.
BLUF: If you're shooting dangerous people in your home - over-penetration is the least of your worries.
If you're still concerned, get frangible income for whatever your choice is. If you're still concerned, you have to go non-lethal.
Posted on 8/28/18 at 10:16 am to Ace Midnight
If you're concerned about being robbed in the middle of the night, a home alarm system will run off all but the most whacked out meth-heads.
If you're concerned about being targeted, where an alarm wouldn't run off the guy there to kill you and your family... then you need to rip out all of your drywall and put up this: LINK
Roll with the AR-15 for the increased mag size, and just fire away.
If you're concerned about being targeted, where an alarm wouldn't run off the guy there to kill you and your family... then you need to rip out all of your drywall and put up this: LINK
Roll with the AR-15 for the increased mag size, and just fire away.
Posted on 8/28/18 at 10:42 am to SouthernInsanity
quote:
Who has one and what's your recommendation? 870, etc..?
Save up for a Benelli. Go look at the defensive shotgun classes and see what holds up. You'll see real quickly why Benelli costs more. This is an old thread about firearms holding up under heavy use at a large firearm rental.
Benelli reliablity
The good part.
quote:
We have a Benelli factory SBR that has been on the line since day one OVER four years ago and it runs and runs and runs. Mossbergs and Remington pump-actions will get 3 and at MOST 4 weeks of use before they are hard-broke. It's been abused with 00 buck, birdshot and even higher velocity frangible but nothing has taken it out of action.
If I ever had to have one shotgun for the rest of my life, it would be the Benelli M4.
V/R
Ron
I'm a believer that when purchasing a gun for self defense that you buy the best you can afford and take a good class on that platform. The "cost" difference will pale in comparison to the cost of a hospital stay or funeral.
Posted on 8/28/18 at 10:47 am to SouthernInsanity
The only thing suitable for the OB...
Da judge or raging judge
Da judge or raging judge
Posted on 8/28/18 at 10:59 am to Kino74
quote:
Mossbergs and Remington pump-actions will get 3 and at MOST 4 weeks of use before they are hard-broke.
I flat out don’t believe this. As if the U.S. military didn’t fully test the Mossbergs before adopting them.
Posted on 8/28/18 at 11:39 am to upgrade
quote:
Mossbergs and Remington pump-actions will get 3 and at MOST 4 weeks of use before they are hard-broke.
You are kidding aren't you?
Why take the chance on 223 ammo in your house if the situation arises? At the critical moment do you want to worry about injuring a family member?
Take family safety out of the equation- use a reliable short barreled shotgun to take out the threat. If hit by a blast from a 12 gauge- they will leave (if able to).
Posted on 8/28/18 at 12:18 pm to SouthernInsanity
Any shotgun with No. 4 or No.6 shot is a superior home defense weapon. Your range will be measured in feet. Shoot a 2 liter bottle at 3 steps and you will see what I mean. Nobody is walking away from that. Your chances of collateral damage decrease significantly also. I like a double or o/u.
Posted on 8/28/18 at 12:30 pm to mikeytig
quote:
Why take the chance on 223 ammo in your house if the situation arises? At the critical moment do you want to worry about injuring a family member?
Why do people keep saying this crap when numerous posters posted factual information regarding using 223 indoors?
The flight path of a lightweight, high-velocity projectile is easily interrupted by barriers. Even this weekend I took a rifle class near Mobile and saw it happen - I nicked the barrier I was shooting around (plywood) and it was causing my rounds to keyhole on the target. This was shooting a target from about 10 feet away and it significantly affected the flight path.
If you’re still skeptical, watch this video. They test quite a lot of different rounds.
Ballistics inside a house
For the OP, there have been some good shotgun suggestions so far. And I agree with the few that have said use buckshot. You don’t want to rely on your threat feeling the pain and deciding to stop, you want to do real damage to your threat to MAKE them stop.
My home defense weapon is my BCM 16” with Hornady Vmax 55gr rounds. A shotgun will do just fine but the majority of my training has been on the AR platform.
Posted on 8/28/18 at 12:42 pm to bapple
quote:
bapple
frick your expert opinion.
Posted on 8/28/18 at 12:45 pm to bapple
quote:
You don’t want to rely on your threat feeling the pain and deciding to stop, you want to do real damage to your threat to MAKE them stop.
Or using sophisticated technology of clothing and a jacket. (I'm not saying your target will be unharmed. I'm not even saying your target may not ultimately die - I'm saying that if you score a full torso hit with #8 shot and the cat is wearing thick clothing and a heavy leather jacket he might still be capable of inflicting harm or even killing you or yours. That's simply not likely if you use buckshot at household ranges.)
Posted on 8/28/18 at 1:27 pm to Ace Midnight
I live alone. 12ga OO buckshot for me. It's a great option for whacking a pissed off trailer park pit bull which is far more likely for me than an intruder.
Posted on 8/28/18 at 1:28 pm to gumbo2176
Ballistic Testing
Actually 5.56 is less like to penetrate through multiple walls than buckshot or handgun rounds like 9mm.
30 rounds (or more with a drum/extended mag) > 8 or whatever fits in a shotgun tube these days.
Yes birdshot can tear of an appendage if at point blank range. But if shooting down a hallway from the back to front of a house, it’s not going to do as much damage as you’d like it to. Shoot to stop a threat, nothing less. Birdshot will not penetrate far enough to stop a threat.
Overall a shotgun can still be a good defense weapon, especially if you don’t have access to other guns, but there are a lot of terrible myths on why people should use them. You still have to aim, and while birdshot won’t go through a bunch of walls, it makes a terrible threat stopper.
Actually 5.56 is less like to penetrate through multiple walls than buckshot or handgun rounds like 9mm.
30 rounds (or more with a drum/extended mag) > 8 or whatever fits in a shotgun tube these days.
Yes birdshot can tear of an appendage if at point blank range. But if shooting down a hallway from the back to front of a house, it’s not going to do as much damage as you’d like it to. Shoot to stop a threat, nothing less. Birdshot will not penetrate far enough to stop a threat.
Overall a shotgun can still be a good defense weapon, especially if you don’t have access to other guns, but there are a lot of terrible myths on why people should use them. You still have to aim, and while birdshot won’t go through a bunch of walls, it makes a terrible threat stopper.
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