- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Home defense shotgun
Posted on 8/28/18 at 10:14 pm to ChatRabbit77
Posted on 8/28/18 at 10:14 pm to ChatRabbit77
If I shoot you with 6 shot at 25 feet, which would be a really big room, you are going die really soon and definitely stop doing whatever you were doing
2
Posted on 8/28/18 at 10:57 pm to ecb
quote:
If I shoot you with 6 shot at 25 feet, which would be a really big room, you are going die really soon and definitely stop doing whatever you were doing
This post was edited on 8/28/18 at 10:58 pm
Posted on 8/29/18 at 7:13 am to SouthernInsanity
quote:
Hey Ace.... when your AVA pals getting home? Should be soon. Hope they stayed safe.
I tried to get clarification from you the other day - I'm pretty sure you have me confused with someone else. I don't have anyone forward. I'm finishing up this Fall.
Posted on 8/29/18 at 8:33 am to bapple
quote:
If you’re still skeptical, watch this video. They test quite a lot of different rounds. Ballistics inside a house
Did you watch the video? Not sure what your trying to prove but the video confirms what we are saying. The shooters are shooting 223 ammo with - in the first case- a 55 grain ball.
The projectile goes thru the target and also thru 2-3 sheets of drywall. The only thing the projectile did not do was exit the house.
This post was edited on 8/29/18 at 8:51 am
Posted on 8/29/18 at 9:49 am to baldona
quote:
I understand planning for worst case scenarios too.
I don't think you do.
Posted on 8/29/18 at 10:21 am to mikeytig
5.56 ball has an easily disrupted flight path and penetrates less through indoor walls when compared to handgun rounds and buckshot. That’s the argument I was making. I know it takes very little for a bullet to penetrate drywall and wasn’t arguing against that. The 5.56 round is the best choice for indoor situations when compared to the other effective options.
Posted on 8/29/18 at 11:11 am to bapple
quote:
The 5.56 round is the best choice for indoor situations when compared to the other effective options.
Maybe this is true for an experienced practiced shooter. It is not practical for most people to depend on a high powered rifle for home defense. Have to look beyond ballistics and use some common sense here.
Posted on 8/29/18 at 11:19 am to mikeytig
quote:
high powered rifle
What centerfire rifle would you consider "low powered"?
Posted on 8/29/18 at 11:29 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
What centerfire rifle would you consider "low powered"?
Any of the rifles chambered in a pistol cartridge I’d consider low powered.
No this does not mean I want to be shot by one or that they aren’t lethal, but they are not the same animal as a true rifle cartridge.
Posted on 8/29/18 at 11:36 am to mikeytig
quote:
Maybe this is true for an experienced practiced shooter.
The AR15 is not rocket science and anyone can learn how to use one with some quality training. If someone isn't training with ANY platform they plan to defend life and limb with, they are severely handicapping themselves. I advise every student I teach to practice with your defensive firearm and get proficient. Most don't do it but it's only my job to state the importance of the skill.
But, notice in a different thread I did mention this point. I'm merely stating the choice of 5.56/.223 as superior compared to buckshot or a handgun. I should've made that clearer. From another thread about revolvers:
quote:
1. I defend my home with an AR15 because it holds a ton of ammo, is very easy to shoot, has very little recoil, is more effective at stopping people, and most importantly penetrates the fewest layers of drywall when compared to a handgun round or buckshot from a shotgun. The lightweight, high-velocity projectile is easily disrupted in flight by even thin barriers. If you haven't trained on the AR I'd suggest sticking with the handgun though.
Posted on 8/29/18 at 12:48 pm to upgrade
quote:
Any of the rifles chambered in a pistol cartridge I’d consider low powered.
And, not to be hyper-technical, but those would all be rightly considered carbines. I'm not even saying you're wrong, per se, but I see the language used on the wrong side of the gun control debate all the time.
I didn't want to mischaracterize your position in this context - but you consider all rifle caliber centerfire rifles "high powered". IMHO, that term ceases to have any real meaning in that context.
I get that technology changes and it does have a certain degree of relativity and context, but if 5.56mm (a centerfire .22 caliber cartridge in the 40 to 80 grain, ~3k FPS range) is "high powered", then what is .300 Win Mag (approximately 3x the mass, same velocity), or .460 Weatherby (8x the mass, 85% velocity)?
This post was edited on 8/29/18 at 12:50 pm
Posted on 8/29/18 at 1:37 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
I tried to get clarification from you the other day - I'm pretty sure you have me confused with someone else. I don't have anyone forward. I'm finishing up this Fall.
My bad. I get the aviation units mixed up here and there, since they have what... multiple units at the airport?
Thanks for your service!!
Posted on 8/29/18 at 2:40 pm to ecb
quote:
If I shoot you with 6 shot at 25 feet, which would be a really big room, you are going die really soon and definitely stop doing whatever you were doing
Not necessarily.
Good friend of mine was on a swat unit and was clearing a house. He was shot 4 times at pooint blank range with a 9mm.
One in the face, one in the vest, one in his hip and one in his leg.
Even then he was able to empty his weapon, change mags and empty it again.
And he lived.
Posted on 8/29/18 at 3:20 pm to bapple
First of all I would like to say I appreciate very much the service you provide educating people on proficiency with firearms. I think you provide a very valuable service.
There is no question a 223 has more stopping power in a shotgun. My point is when you’re using a 223 (yes ace midnight a high-powered rifle) in an urban/suburban setting you’re introducing a whole new set of variables into the home defense question.
You are legally responsible where the projectile goes. And you may or may not hit your target but that projectile May go someplace you don’t want it to go. Why not take that out of the equation? The vast majority of people don’t take courses on home defense. Most people walking to the nearest Academy and buy a gun to protect themselves from unwanted intruders. And whether you are proficient or not-the same risk factors apply to everybody.
There is no question a 223 has more stopping power in a shotgun. My point is when you’re using a 223 (yes ace midnight a high-powered rifle) in an urban/suburban setting you’re introducing a whole new set of variables into the home defense question.
You are legally responsible where the projectile goes. And you may or may not hit your target but that projectile May go someplace you don’t want it to go. Why not take that out of the equation? The vast majority of people don’t take courses on home defense. Most people walking to the nearest Academy and buy a gun to protect themselves from unwanted intruders. And whether you are proficient or not-the same risk factors apply to everybody.
This post was edited on 8/30/18 at 9:22 am
Posted on 8/29/18 at 3:41 pm to mikeytig
quote:
projectile May go someplace you don’t want it to go
And so can shotgun and pistol rounds and potentially further.
If you read much in the thread you would have read that a 9mm and shotgun slug/buckshot will travel through more drywall than a 5.56/.223
Posted on 8/29/18 at 3:41 pm to mikeytig
quote:
Why not take that out of the equation?
Because you can't. Any round that will adequately penetrate an intruder will also go through multiple layers of drywall. The best thing to do is not miss.
Posted on 8/29/18 at 4:19 pm to bbvdd
Does the avg home intruder wear a vest?
Posted on 8/29/18 at 4:26 pm to bbvdd
quote:
If you read much in the thread you would have read that a 9mm and shotgun slug/buckshot will travel through more drywall than a 5.56/.223
What about a glass window or an open door or a screen? The tests are almost never "real world".
Sure, people survive gun shots all the time. Getting shot at close range with ball ammo can be better for survival as there is less expansion of the bullet. Everyone keeps trying to convince me which gun is the best to kill an intruder. In a high stress environment I'll take the shotty with any spread over an AR with my family around.
This post was edited on 8/29/18 at 4:28 pm
Posted on 8/29/18 at 4:42 pm to ecb
I know a guy who took who took 5 shots that didn't drop him...he took it and smiled. Afterwards he was back to set the record straight. And, with his AK, he was still the thug that you love to hate.
ETA: Unfortunately, later in life he took 4 shots from a .40 and did infact die.
ETA: Unfortunately, later in life he took 4 shots from a .40 and did infact die.
Posted on 8/29/18 at 5:24 pm to mikeytig
quote:
I think you provide a very valuable service.
I appreciate that. Thanks.
quote:
There is no question a 223 has more stopping power in a shotgun. My point is when you’re using a 22 (yes ace midnight a high-powered rifle) in an urban/suburban setting you’re introducing a whole new set of variables into the home defense question.
Notice I don't ever use the term "stopping power" because it's very misleading and very cliche. I use the term "muzzle energy," and when comparing a 5.56 to 12 gauge buckshot, the 12 gauge will probably have more muzzle energy. But either of those is more effective than a handgun. The AR also gives you much more ammo, less felt recoil (considerably), and faster follow-up shots.
quote:
You are legally responsible where the projectile goes. And you may or may not hit your target but that projectile May go someplace you don’t want it to go. Why not take that out of the equation?
As others have mentioned, a round adequate enough for self defense will always have the risk of going somewhere you don't intend it to go. And as most of the tests have shown, the 5.56 has the lowest chance of collateral damage in an interior defensive setting compared to other options. All of them have some risk but 5.56 will have the lowest risk according to those tests.
I have my rifle loaded with 55gr Hornady Vmax, so I'm not even using ball ammo. But the round is a fast-expanding/fragmenting round that will have a low chance of collateral damage. That's the important thing in my home - deliver the energy into the threat where it's supposed to go. The chance of me not hitting what I'm shooting at will always be there.
Page 4 of 5
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News