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Started By
Message
re: What was the country’s reaction to the 1993 Waco siege when that was going on?
Posted on 3/26/23 at 9:41 pm to Byrdybyrd05
Posted on 3/26/23 at 9:41 pm to Byrdybyrd05
We
Ain’t
Coming
Out
Ain’t
Coming
Out
0
Posted on 3/26/23 at 9:42 pm to patnuh
quote:
This is true. After watching documentaries on Waco now, my only issue with them is the Koresh was screwing 12-13 year olds. Everything else is their business.
Agree. But no way that invasion would’ve happened over only underage sex. I mean look at DC and their Hollywood cohorts.
Posted on 3/26/23 at 10:07 pm to Byrdybyrd05
The initial raid killed 4 agents.
After that, the government was going to get revenge.
The real mistake was the initial raid. The thinking was if they grabbed him in town, then the followers would go nuts with all their weapons.
So the idea was a surprise raid to grab him and neutralize the cache at same time.
But the idiots in tbe FBI wanted the raid televised and live reported, which caused the cover to be blown, and the followers were waiting on the fbi, locked and loaded, when they got there.
After that, the government was going to get revenge.
The real mistake was the initial raid. The thinking was if they grabbed him in town, then the followers would go nuts with all their weapons.
So the idea was a surprise raid to grab him and neutralize the cache at same time.
But the idiots in tbe FBI wanted the raid televised and live reported, which caused the cover to be blown, and the followers were waiting on the fbi, locked and loaded, when they got there.
Posted on 3/26/23 at 10:12 pm to Byrdybyrd05
I was pissed off. I’m still pissed off.
Posted on 3/26/23 at 10:16 pm to LSUFanHouston
quote:
But the idiots in tbe FBI wanted the raid televised and live reported, which caused the cover to be blown, and the followers were waiting on the fbi, locked and loaded, when they got there.
ATF
Cover was already blown, they knew the undercover agent was ATF. They just found out when they were coming when the news channel asked a mailman where the compound was and the mailman was a Davidian.
Posted on 3/26/23 at 10:22 pm to LSUFanHouston
quote:
The thinking was if they grabbed him in town, then the followers would go nuts with all their weapons.
vs raiding a compound where women, children, and 99% of the weapons and the people to fire at them were?
No flaws in their logic there.
Posted on 3/26/23 at 10:46 pm to Dam Guide
quote:
There isn’t much study done on children and how it affects them thankfully
Do 17 year olds count as kids? Because hundreds of thousands of us have had to stand in that shite. I think cops go through something similar. A whole lot of DAs in blue cities are pretty sure they're children.
I won't say the word smaxxcine, but we can get into conversations about the level of harm conducted against innocent people anytime.
Here's the problem with why you guys get treated as conspiracy theorists. The armored vehicle, the CS, none of that shite really matters if it was not predicated on legitimate legal interests/authority. The tools and tech will always change, but the bullshite excuses used to get a warrant, or execute a Terry stop on you when walking down the street, are actually the important questions. People won't paint you as Portland weirdos if you just focus on the basic question that should really be answered, rather than what type of grenade was thrown where.
Posted on 3/26/23 at 11:56 pm to thelawnwranglers
Branch Davidians fricked around.
Branch Davidians found out.
Branch Davidians found out.
Posted on 3/27/23 at 1:19 am to AlonsoWDC
Branch Davidians played stupid games.
Branch Davidians won stupid prizes.
Branch Davidians won stupid prizes.
Posted on 3/27/23 at 6:54 am to Byrdybyrd05
Non stop coverage. Then it became a joke as the stand-off drug on for over a month.
I can remember being ok with the feds going in. Thinking “wtf do they expect”. I know now it’s much more complex. And stupid. Main thing that stands out now is the intel they had on Koresh. 2 agents could have walked up to him having lunch and taken him in with zero incident.
The ATF and others wanted a show. Poor bastards got it.
I can remember being ok with the feds going in. Thinking “wtf do they expect”. I know now it’s much more complex. And stupid. Main thing that stands out now is the intel they had on Koresh. 2 agents could have walked up to him having lunch and taken him in with zero incident.
The ATF and others wanted a show. Poor bastards got it.
Posted on 3/27/23 at 7:51 am to LemmyLives
quote:
Do 17 year olds count as kids? Because hundreds of thousands of us have had to stand in that shite. I think cops go through something similar. A whole lot of DAs in blue cities are pretty sure they're children.
No, I am talking about under 5.
quote:
The tools and tech will always change, but the bullshite excuses used to get a warrant, or execute a Terry stop on you when walking down the street, are actually the important questions
The ATF lied on the warrant as well. They lied on it a lot. This is how badly the warrant was written, the part of the government that is supposed to be the expert on firearms claimed Koresh had upper and lowers for automatic AKs. There was shite in there about a drug lab they knew was removed by local police after Koresh took over and had local police remove it.
There is some legal guy that made a webpage that went through all the lazy errors of the warrant for Waco. The whole thing was written pretty garage and full of errors. Will try to find it later when I have time to search.
Posted on 3/27/23 at 8:02 am to Byrdybyrd05
My only exposure to news back then would have been morning/evening news and the paper. I think most people bought the company line that it was a dangerous cult or some shiat, but I certainly have a different viewpoint now.
Posted on 3/27/23 at 8:04 am to Byrdybyrd05
There were people on the left calling for the ATF to be abolished and severe criticism of the FBI.
Man times have changed
Man times have changed
Posted on 3/27/23 at 9:16 am to Byrdybyrd05
Watched it every evening after work and Janet Reno was in over her head and allowed the situation to get out of control.
Koresh should have been arrested away from the compound.
Koresh was a nut but we have Freedom of Religion and 2A for a reason and he should have had his day in court.
Battle Of Tippecanoe 11-7-1811 William Henry
Harrison(9th US Pres.)
Sand Creek Massacre 11-29-1864 Col.Chivington
Washita Massacre 11-27-1868 Lt. Col. G.A.Custer
Wounded Knee Massacre 12-29-1890
Bonus Army 7-28-1932 Gen. Douglas MacArthur
Kent State 5-4-1970
Our government has been involved in massacres for some time.
McVeigh lost his mind , perhaps he targeted the wrong town, maybe the _ _ ________ instead ?
Koresh should have been arrested away from the compound.
Koresh was a nut but we have Freedom of Religion and 2A for a reason and he should have had his day in court.
Battle Of Tippecanoe 11-7-1811 William Henry
Harrison(9th US Pres.)
Sand Creek Massacre 11-29-1864 Col.Chivington
Washita Massacre 11-27-1868 Lt. Col. G.A.Custer
Wounded Knee Massacre 12-29-1890
Bonus Army 7-28-1932 Gen. Douglas MacArthur
Kent State 5-4-1970
Our government has been involved in massacres for some time.
McVeigh lost his mind , perhaps he targeted the wrong town, maybe the _ _ ________ instead ?
Posted on 3/27/23 at 9:22 am to biglego
quote:
This. Nobody was happy about it but most of us assumed Koresh really was some sort of monster doing wicked things with kids. How would we know any different when all we got was the blurb on the evening news?
Yes, mostly. But living in Houston, so closeby, a really lot of folks were saying, WTF?!?! I definitely felt a mix of "Why is the gov't doing this?" and "What the hell is this awful cult doing up there?!?!" Maybe it was a little different in Texas. It didn't just seem straight up accepted as fine.
This post was edited on 3/27/23 at 9:25 am
Posted on 3/27/23 at 9:51 am to MississippiTigerGirl
Yep. I was getting close to grabbing my rifle and heading to WACO at the end. I knew how it would end because they'd done the 'insert gas, woops the house is on fire' trick before. Waiting till the wind was that strong was the final blow. After Ruby Ridge, if you were paying attention, you were freaking out at the Feds. I was watching live when the place went up in flames and I cried for those people because I knew what I was watching. The systemic murder of a lot of people who had done nothing to deserve to die like that.
ATF didn't have a case. They just had an opportunity to show Ninja Stuff to congress to justify their budget. Should have been feds going to prison after this. Instead they were given medals for murdering those children.
ATF didn't have a case. They just had an opportunity to show Ninja Stuff to congress to justify their budget. Should have been feds going to prison after this. Instead they were given medals for murdering those children.
Posted on 3/27/23 at 10:01 am to Byrdybyrd05
I will always hold Janet Reno responsible for that massacre.
Posted on 3/27/23 at 10:05 am to Byrdybyrd05
I was in my mid 20’s, I guess I believed what the news said, FBI was going in to save children, shootout ensued, they believed they people inside might be killing off each other as a mass suicide so the moved in and as a result the Davidians set the place on fire
That was the whole narrative at the time as best as I can recall
That was the whole narrative at the time as best as I can recall
Posted on 3/27/23 at 10:42 am to 777Tiger
quote:
people were probably a lot more aware of current events back then than you’d imagine, maybe just not so hip about TikTok, twitter, IG, or some of the other really important things
So true. People actually read the newspaper. It was still news that was filtered through the reporter's eyes, but a lot more details than a 30-60 second sound bite like people get now since so many don't do anything but read headlines on social media or see little snippets on Twitter and TikTok. Many people started watching news at 5pm and watched till 6:30 while fixing dinner, etc. Then they watched it again at 10 pm.
Posted on 3/27/23 at 10:43 am to BFIV
quote:
I will always hold Janet Reno responsible for that massacre.
FBI holds this one, they didn’t follow the recommendations of their negotiators and constantly lied to Reno. Reno just followed their recommendations, which were lies.
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