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Posted on 8/19/23 at 7:51 pm to Strannix
You are an idiot… and did we go into WW2 because of Russia or because we were attacked…
Posted on 8/19/23 at 7:54 pm to BeachDude022
quote:
And frick Ali for running away from it when my uncle was forced to go and was killed at 19 years old.
That sucks that your uncle, at 19, was forced to go into that war. That whole draft, sending all of those young men on a 1 year tour was the worst strategy, but I can't blame anyone who tried to get out of it.
My mom told me she graduated with a guy who went to prison for several years because he refused to go.
On the other hand, I had a boss who fought in Vietnam. He didn't get drafted, but ended up getting into a lot of trouble. It wasn't his first offense and the judge gave him the option. Jail or Vietnam. He said he went with Vietnam because he only had to survive for a year, he was looking at 8-10 years in jail.
He told me one of the worst things to see was a guy with only a month or two left getting killed and within whatever platoon he was in, he said that the closer people started to get to their one year, the more of them would hide out and avoid going in the field to fight because a year seemed a long time, but when they start getting to 2 or 3 months left, going back home started to seem like a reality.
He also told me a guy he knew ended up getting addicted to heroin and he became an alcoholic (well, he was likely an alcoholic before going, he just didn't know it). 6 weeks before his tour was over, he said the guy went cold turkey and stayed under his bed. The first three weeks the guy was shaking the whole time, didn't talk to anyone.. couldn't talk to anyone, then after the first 3 weeks he stayed there so he wouldn't be tempted.
He didn't want to go back and his parents see him as a drug addict alcoholic. But he continued to smoke because he said out of the heroin and alcohol, cigarettes would have been the hardest to stop.
I like hearing stories from people who were in Vietnam, but that war hurt this country.
Them although its not talked about as much, we shouldn't have gone to Afghanistan in the 80s to help them fight the Russians, but the US wanted to have as much control over oil as Russia (or USSR at the time) wanted.
Posted on 8/19/23 at 7:55 pm to Darth_Vader
Us wiping our arse with the Paris peace accord killed scores of people. It didn’t stop the Vietnamese from invading their neighbors either. What a cluster
Posted on 8/19/23 at 7:58 pm to Riggle
My dad used to tell me stories about drinking beer with a guy on Saturday night and he gets his card called monday and is gone and next he hears that he was killed in Vietnam months later and thinking I was just drinking a beer with him
Posted on 8/19/23 at 7:58 pm to DMagic
quote:
Us wiping our arse with the Paris peace accord killed scores of people. It didn’t stop the Vietnamese from invading their neighbors either. What a cluster
The reason it didn’t stop them from invading is Congress cut off aid to South Vietnam. The South had already defeated a Northern offensive on their own in 1972. The difference in 1975 is we had cut off all aid to the South while the Soviets had rearmed the North.
Posted on 8/19/23 at 8:09 pm to TutHillTiger
quote:
Watching something on TV with that in background and remembering my dad’s stories, is there really any defense for it, other than they may have honestly thought they were correct
Too young for Nam, I was always of the opinion that 'the cause was right, it just wasn't run correctly by the generals back in D.C.'
Then we got Gulf War 1. Get in, kick arse, get out. No WAY we'd make the same mistakes as Nam all over again.
Right?
Then there was Gulf War2.
FF to Joe Biden's cowardly retreat.. I've basically turned into the equivalent to Ron Kovic. We don't fight wars to win. We send our young men to die for the military industrial complex & major Int'l corporations.
Smarter men could have avoided Viet Nam. But they chose not to.
Posted on 8/19/23 at 8:32 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
The Tet Offensive was nowhere near a “turning point” in favor of North Vietnam.
quote:
Hanoi’s “go for broke” attempt to rapidly collapse the Saigon regime and force the Americans to
abandon the war had failed. Nonetheless, America’s response to the attacks transformed Tet into a
political and strategic victory for the Vietnamese communists. The shock of the unexpected and
unprecedented first wave of attacks generated a series of political earthquakes that shook the Johnson
administration to its foundation and prompted a major revision of America’s Vietnam policies. By the
end of March, Johnson had halted the strategic bombing campaign against North Vietnam, opened the
road to formal diplomatic negotiations with Hanoi, rejected Westmoreland’s request for an additional
206,000 troops, set into motion the possibility of an American troop withdrawal, and paved the way
for a successor by announcing that he would not run for another term as president.
Then Nixon got elected on a platform of ending the war in Vietnam. So how was Tet not a turning point in favor of North Vietnam?
Posted on 8/19/23 at 8:36 pm to TutHillTiger
quote:Was the war cover to spread communism at home??
It seemed to change everything here
This post was edited on 8/19/23 at 8:48 pm
Posted on 8/19/23 at 8:43 pm to PetroBabich
quote:
Then Nixon got elected on a platform of ending the war in Vietnam. So how was Tet not a turning point in favor of North Vietnam?
Tet was a military disaster for North Vietnam. But our media lied to the American people and portrayed it as the “turning point” of the war.
Posted on 8/19/23 at 8:54 pm to Darth_Vader
And the lie became the truth.
Posted on 8/19/23 at 8:58 pm to TutHillTiger
The mistake was trying to help France hang on to it's colony and driving Ho Chi Minh into the arms of Russia and China. He was a communist but favorably disposed to the US until we gave him the cold shoulder at the end of WWII, after backing him against the Japanese during the war.. Vietnam could have been a non-aligned state like Yugoslavia.
Posted on 8/19/23 at 9:20 pm to Jim Rockford
The biggest crime re Nam was the draft. The local draft boards, who determined who went & who stayed home basically were run by mini politicians / numbnuts. The one here, responsible for the drafting of over 70K, was the head librarian...whose daddy was a huge donator to the Democrats who ran the parish back then. A librarian sent 100's to their deaths. Guess how many rich kids got drafted. I was 1A ( dead meat) & one hour short in college when the first lottery saved my arse. That took the politicians out of the draft. Years too late for those 17,000 on the Wall in D.C.
Posted on 8/19/23 at 10:48 pm to Keltic Tiger
There better not be a single poster here beating the "we had no business being in Vietnam" drum and then turning around shouting "Slava Ukraine!". Neither are nor were existential threats to the US.
Posted on 8/19/23 at 11:07 pm to TutHillTiger
Seems in hindsight that it was.. because it turned out so shitty. But the fact of the matter is that if we did not take a stand against communism it absolutely would have spread. A central tenant of Marxist ideology was internationalism (spreading the revolution world wide) and the Soviet Union was devoting billions to supporting communist insurgencies and propping up communist regimes.
We might not have won, but we showed that we were serious about stopping the cancerous spread of communism by putting boots on the ground in Vietnam... It made the Soviets and Chinese think twice about committing massive resources to spread communism if they knew they'd have to fight the US.
Seriously think about it. If the US had honestly said "f*ck it" go ahead and take all of Vietnam without a fight of course the Soviets would have kept going through all of Southeast Asia. Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand and even Hong Kong all became prosperous and (somewhat) free societies because the US took a stand in Vietnam.
We might not have won, but we showed that we were serious about stopping the cancerous spread of communism by putting boots on the ground in Vietnam... It made the Soviets and Chinese think twice about committing massive resources to spread communism if they knew they'd have to fight the US.
Seriously think about it. If the US had honestly said "f*ck it" go ahead and take all of Vietnam without a fight of course the Soviets would have kept going through all of Southeast Asia. Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand and even Hong Kong all became prosperous and (somewhat) free societies because the US took a stand in Vietnam.
Posted on 8/19/23 at 11:19 pm to go_tigres
quote:
…not to cross the 38th parallel…
What does that have do with Vietnam?
Posted on 8/19/23 at 11:33 pm to SoFla Tideroller
quote:
There better not be a single poster here beating the "we had no business being in Vietnam" drum and then turning around shouting "Slava Ukraine!". Neither are nor were existential threats to the US.
I mean the OP threatened to have his NSA buddies upload illegal videos involving minors onto MomentofTruth87's computer so that he "would lose his job, family, and ultimately commit suicide" because he wasn't rooting for Ukraine.
Posted on 8/19/23 at 11:56 pm to TutHillTiger
You can hate on Ken Burns all you want, but he had the measure of it.
Posted on 8/20/23 at 12:20 am to TutHillTiger
Absolutely a mistake. Or hell not even a mistake, a purposefully lied about and manufactured war
Posted on 8/20/23 at 1:10 am to TutHillTiger
The political war they fought was wrong.
They also underestimated their enemy.
They also underestimated their enemy.
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