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re: UPDATE 4/26 -Just In Case the OT Didn't Know - The UK is murdering a little baby right now
Posted on 4/25/18 at 10:10 am to DirtyMikeandtheBoys
Posted on 4/25/18 at 10:10 am to DirtyMikeandtheBoys
Okay, England is footing the bill for the child's care. I guess they can say "we've done enough; we will try no more."
What I can't fathom is how the government feels they have the right to not allow the parents to take the boy out of the hospital. If they want to attempt some form of care at their own expense, even in another country, they should let them try.
The powers that be involved in this case are evil. How they can let this boy die just so they don't have to say "I was wrong" or to protect a shitty national health system I will not understand.
It makes you want to
What I can't fathom is how the government feels they have the right to not allow the parents to take the boy out of the hospital. If they want to attempt some form of care at their own expense, even in another country, they should let them try.
The powers that be involved in this case are evil. How they can let this boy die just so they don't have to say "I was wrong" or to protect a shitty national health system I will not understand.
It makes you want to
1
Posted on 4/25/18 at 10:11 am to DirtyMikeandtheBoys
quote:
I'm no Dr, but doesn't eye tracking, pupil dilation, blinking, sucking on a pacifier indicate there is brain activity?
Is there a link to this? All I saw is that he is just breathing on his own.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 10:11 am to GetCocky11
quote:
Unless the doctors are just straight up lying though, the essence of who he is is gone. His body may grow up and develop, but his brain will be blank
Even if that's right why should a government get to decide when that person must die? We can get into the ethical debate of how long should the parents continue the life support and whatnot, but I don't think there's any question it's a personal matter not a matter of public policy.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 10:12 am to TheFonz
Irony is if Diana were alive she would bitch slap anyone in her way to get to this boy right now. Her sons need to step up.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 10:15 am to GetCocky11
quote:
Unless the doctors are just straight up lying though, the essence of who he is is gone. His body may grow up and develop, but his brain will be blank.
The point is that the Government is effectively removing the ability of these parents to ever have closure. To have that feeling that they did everything they could conceivably do to save their child.
The government has stripped them of this.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 10:15 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
Right. I'm interested to see if the Parents just go in, take him and say "Arrest us or shoot us but we are leaving" and what they would actually do.
Probably tase them and restrain them. Can't imagine they'd use lethal force.
quote:
And what the aftermath would be.
I'd be curious as well.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 10:18 am to Sao
quote:
Oh, and by the way as this has turned some of our conservatives into whining Libs...
quote:
and one of the religious Right’s most influential young voices. He is known for boldly tackling the tough subjects and speaking out on faith and culture in a way that connects with his generation and beyond
....what?
Posted on 4/25/18 at 10:20 am to TH03
quote:There are many instances where I believe option one is better for the child.
In what world is option 1 better for the child?
The biggest issue at play here is the legal system and it’s ruling pertaining to the medical care and the parents’, in essence, loss of custody and control of their child’s medical care.
In these instances, the state should not be involved and the parents should retain an element of control.
Doctors should in no way be compelled to perform care against their own ethical and moral stances.
The parents have been robbed of their rights as parents through the use of morally flawed legislation.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 10:22 am to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
Even if that's right why should a government get to decide when that person must die? We can get into the ethical debate of how long should the parents continue the life support and whatnot, but I don't think there's any question it's a personal matter not a matter of public policy.
Texas has a futile care law where care can be withdrawn if deemed futile by the caregivers.
Of course, there are multiple steps to get to that point and it allows for the family to transfer the patient to another facility if the new facility is willing to continue care, but even the US gets involved in this.
This post was edited on 4/25/18 at 10:23 am
Posted on 4/25/18 at 10:22 am to Scruffy
quote:
I believe
quote:
Scruffy
You're on the wrong account, switch to your alter.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 10:23 am to Scruffy
quote:
There are many instances where I believe option one is better for the child.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 10:24 am to GetCocky11
quote:
Texas has a futile care law where care can be withdrawn if deemed futile by the caregivers.
It's up to that private citizen whether or not they want to refuse care to a patient. I'm fine with that. The law gives the citizen the liberty to decide whether or not to provide care, not mandate they do or do not.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 10:24 am to GetCocky11
quote:There are a vast number of children in the USA that fits this and are maintained because the parents retain the rights of medical management.
Unless the doctors are just straight up lying though, the essence of who he is is gone. His body may grow up and develop, but his brain will be blank.
Whether we are right or wrong in our management of them is a philosophical/ethical argument that is usually interesting, and one I love to have.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 10:24 am to DirtyMikeandtheBoys
quote:
That is why they are killing Alfie Evans. And may God have mercy on them for it.
If God gave a shite he could cure Alfie.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 10:27 am to colorchangintiger
quote:He has bigger fish to fry
If God gave a shite he could cure Alfie.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 10:27 am to Scruffy
quote:
In these instances, the state should not be involved and the parents should retain an element of control.
Doctors should in no way be compelled to perform care against their own ethical and moral stances.
Most definitely. The problem with socialized medicine is that it removes control from both parties.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 10:27 am to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
quote:quote:
Texas has a futile care law where care can be withdrawn if deemed futile by the caregivers.
It's up to that private citizen whether or not they want to refuse care to a patient. I'm fine with that. The law gives the citizen the liberty to decide whether or not to provide care, not mandate they do or do not.
It is my understanding that, in the case of Texas, if the family refuses to give up treatment, treatment is deemed futile after a consultation between doctors and the family, no outside doctor agrees to give treatment because it is deemed futile, and a judge agrees, then it can be mandated that care be withdrawn.
Please correct me if I'm wrong though.
ETA: Of course I think the UK government is being unnecessarily rigid in this case though.
This post was edited on 4/25/18 at 10:30 am
Posted on 4/25/18 at 10:30 am to GetCocky11
quote:It is truly interesting
It is my understanding that, in the case of Texas, if the family refuses to give up treatment, treatment is deemed futile after a consultation between doctors and the family, no outside doctor agrees to give treatment because it is deemed futile, and a judge agrees, then it can be mandated that care be withdrawn.
Parents in America say they have every right for them to do what they think is right for their child, and that is to keep them on life support
Medical Doctor in America says they have every right for them to do what they think is right for their patients, and that is to refuse life support
Wouldnt it also be govt overreach to force a doctor to perform a procedure he doesnt view as medically correct?
Posted on 4/25/18 at 10:32 am to GetCocky11
There are a lot of stipulations. The hospital has to make it abundantly clear before denying further care to the patient that they can do this and have to help find other treatment before denying further treatment. There’s 48 hours notice of an ethics hearing that the family can attend. They can appeal any decision and prolong treatment during the process.
Before this act, the hospital could get a court order and pull the plug without any issues. This law protects the families more than before.
Before this act, the hospital could get a court order and pull the plug without any issues. This law protects the families more than before.
This post was edited on 4/25/18 at 10:34 am
Posted on 4/25/18 at 10:38 am to lsupride87
quote:
Parents in America say they have every right for them to do what they think is right for their child, and that is to keep them on life support
Medical Doctor in America says they have every right for them to do what they think is right for their patients, and that is to refuse life support
Wouldnt it also be govt overreach to force a doctor to perform a procedure he doesnt view as medically correct?
I mean you're trying to turn this into some kind of complex issue when it's really not. You are not entitled to another person's goods and services. A doctor should not be compelled to perform a procedure he doesn't agree with, and the parents are entitled to seek whatever treatments they deem necessary for their child's health.
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