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Started By
Message
re: UPDATE 4/26 -Just In Case the OT Didn't Know - The UK is murdering a little baby right now
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:29 am to Pilot Tiger
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:29 am to Pilot Tiger
quote:
I feel like we're having a decent back and forth in this thread and then once we reach a climax and some common ground, more people come out of the woodwork and parrot the same points that have already been discussed
The polarization of these issues is useless most of the time.
I'm not saying that in the praise of moderates or advocating for compromise. I just wish we could cut through all the bullshite, find the root of the dispute, and talk about that.
Here, the root of the dispute, IMO, is when it's acceptable for the government to make life decisions that overrule the decisions of next of kin/family members, and the impact of potentially lowering that threshold.
0
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:29 am to theOG
quote:Depends on your definition of treatment.
Except for the individuals preventing the person dying from receiving further treatment.
I will tell you exactly what the Italians plan on doing:
1. Placement of a g-tube for nutrition.
2. Trach placement for respiratory support.
That is essentially it. This child will be bedridden on a feeding pump and vent for his life. He will likely be admitted to the hospital frequently for infections/medical management.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:30 am to LNCHBOX
quote:
quote:
The state makes decisions on child-abuse all the time.
quote:
Pretty sure killing your child is a form of abuse.
Nobody is killing Alfie.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:30 am to LNCHBOX
quote:What if the UK believed here the life support is causing pain and suffering to Alfie?
Pretty sure killing your child is a form of abuse.
Not saying that is the case, just furthering the conversation as the original point seems to have been agreed upon by all already
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:30 am to crimsonsaint
Thanks for chiming in 14 pages late
This post was edited on 4/25/18 at 11:31 am
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:30 am to lsupride87
quote:
What if the UK believed here the life support is causing pain and suffering to Alfie?
I don't care what the government thinks. They should not have that power, plain and simple.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:30 am to GetCocky11
quote:
I disagree.
It isn't even treatment that he would be receiving. It is more a form of life-support
It isn't going to harm the child. It may not improve his condition, but it's not making him worse either. Again, how is this distinguishable from keeping a cancer patient alive for another year? Should we deny treatment for that too? Don't say it's different because it's exactly the same. The illness is terminal, the condition can't be improved, but kept the same or worsen at a slower rate. The only thing changing is the time line.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:31 am to DirtyMikeandtheBoys
quote:we don't know 100% of the time, every time if people in PVS can/can't feel pain.
well, if he is a vegetable, then it really does no harm other than financially to keep him on life support indefinitely, as he cannot feel anything. so the argument for letting him die to ease his "suffering" (how can a vegetative person suffer) is pointless
people on life support for 17 months could in be in pain.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:31 am to lsupride87
quote:
What if the UK believed here the life support is causing pain and suffering to Alfie?
again, what the UK believes in that case should be irrelevant or you are setting an extremely dangerous precedent IMO
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:31 am to GetCocky11
quote:
The state makes decisions on child-abuse all the time.
And, unsurprisingly, the state fricks some of those up. Kids die because the state is deferential to parents who are clearly abusive and reasonably good parents head toward financial ruin trying to fight off the abusive overreach of the state.
What the state already makes decisions about is not a compelling argument for what the state should be allowed to make decisions about, IMO.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:31 am to lsupride87
quote:
What if the UK believed here the life support is causing pain and suffering to Alfie?
they can't claim that anymore. They have argued he is brain dead in order to let him die. So, by their own argument, he cannot suffer whether he is alive or dead. It is purely politicl/financial
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:31 am to LNCHBOX
quote:So Child Support Services shouldnt exist?
They should not have that power, plain and simple.
The govt should NEVER have the power to remove a child from a situation in which they view harm is being done?
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:31 am to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
It isn't going to harm the child. It may not improve his condition, but it's not making him worse either. Again, how is this distinguishable from keeping a cancer patient alive for another year? Should we deny treatment for that too? Don't say it's different because it's exactly the same. The illness is terminal, the condition can't be improved, but kept the same or worsen at a slower rate. The only thing changing is the time line.
Does the cancer patient have a fully functioning brain?
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:32 am to DirtyMikeandtheBoys
quote:I already said I am not talking about the case here.
they can't claim that anymore. They have argued he is brain dead in order to let him die
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:32 am to lsupride87
quote:
So Child Support Services shouldnt exist?
The govt should NEVER have the power to remove a child from a situation in which they view harm is being done?
I want to say that seems like a false equivalency to me.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:33 am to GetCocky11
quote:
Does the cancer patient have a fully functioning brain?
So the threshold is brain injury? What about stroke or coma then. Brain function can be improved so what is the threshold of brain activity that the government can mandate no further treatment?
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:33 am to lsupride87
quote:
So Child Support Services shouldnt exist?
The govt should NEVER have the power to remove a child from a situation in which they view harm is being done?
So now we're comparing keeping him alive to a child abuse case. Nah, not playing in this one.Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:33 am to Ross
quote:That precedent has already been set
again, what the UK believes in that case should be irrelevant or you are setting an extremely dangerous precedent IMO
The govt here in america is even allowed to remove children from their parents care and decisions.....
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:33 am to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
Again, how is this distinguishable from keeping a cancer patient alive for another year? Should we deny treatment for that too? Don't say it's different because it's exactly the same.
I award you no points, and may god have mercy on your soul.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:34 am to lsupride87
quote:
The govt here in america is even allowed to remove children from their parents care and decisions.....
I cannot believable you're really trying to go here
Actually, yes I can.
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