re: UPDATE 4/26 -Just In Case the OT Didn't Know - The UK is murdering a little baby right now

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I think that the govt is making a tough decision but one that they came to very carefully and not without very careful consideration of the well being of the child. It's just an unfortunate situation

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Why should they have this power when the parents can pay for treatment elsewhere? Why can't you just condemn this for what it is?

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Well that changes things if the Italian doctors admit they can't even fix anything.

It just prolongs the inevitable.

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Yes, but prolonging the inevitable is often most of the goal with all sorts of treatment. In my personal life, prolonging the inevitable allowed my wife's mom to see her graduate from high school, etc.

I'm not saying that's necessarily comparable here, I just don't think it's a good standard to use.

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Why should they have this power when the parents can pay for treatment elsewhere?

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I'm not saying they SHOULD have that power. Christ

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Why can't you just condemn this for what it is?

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the reality of the situation is unfortunate. A child is dying and there is nothing anyone can do to cure him.

There's no one to condemn

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It just prolongs the inevitable.

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May as well just kill everyone now since we inevitably all die anyway.

If these parents can pay for whatever treatment they seek, no government should be able to tell them no.

It's much different if the patient is a vegetable.

There comes a point in these cases where it's less about the care of the sick person and more about the family not wanting to let go.

I think that should be left up to the family and the doctors, not the government. Government shouldn't force doctors to treat and shouldn't tell families they can't seek other treatment.

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I ask again, other than reasons of pride, what is it to the NHS if the parents remove the child from the hospital and seek treatment elsewhere at no expense to the NHS?

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It is only pride at stake here. Some people don't recognize how celebrated and revered the NHS is in Britain. In recent years they have made draconian budget cuts in other areas to preserve it amidst rapidly increasing costs. Hell, half of the opening ceremony of the London Olympics was a tribute to the NHS, remember?

The NHS can do no wrong, and it's integrity will be spared at all costs, including the deaths of children.

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May as well just kill everyone now since we inevitably all die anyway.

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That's ridiculous and not what I said.

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If these parents can pay for whatever treatment they seek, no government should be able to tell them no.

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You're arguing my point with my point.

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At heart, this is a proxy argument against the power of the state to control life decisions in a manner that exceeds the power of individuals' next of kin to do so. Nobody is evil here. That said, arguably there is a bad system in place that can lead to harsh, and potentially evil results if allowed to continue in this manner.

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I don't disagree with any of this

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Why should they have this power when the parents can pay for treatment elsewhere? Why can't you just condemn this for what it is?

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here is something to read to understand this decision better

A further scan was ... undertaken on 2 February 2018. This scan showed the almost total destruction of Alfie's brain, with fluid identical to water or CSF now present where brain matter should be.

Professor Cross [instructed to produce a review independent from Alfie's treating doctors] concluded that Alfie has a progressive, ultimately fatal, neurodegenerative condition, most likely a mitochondrial disorder. Professor Cross considered all the evidence, including the dramatic deterioration on the EEG. Professor Cross concluded that Alfie's brain was now only able to generate seizures. ... she told [Alfie's father] in gentle terms that even if it were possible to stop Alfie's seizure, which did not look likely given his poor response to anticonvulsant treatment to date, his brain is entirely beyond recovery.

Three specialists from Bambino Gesù in Rome reviewed Alfie's records and on 11 September 2017 travelled to Alder Hey to examine him. They too agreed that Alfie had a neurodegenerative disease and fitting disorder which was untreatable. They agreed that even if further testing were carried out, it would not provide a cure or, "bring a different treatment plan." In respect of the proposal that Alfie be transferred to their care: "It is possible that during travel Alfie may present continuous seizures due to stimulations related to the transportation and flight: these seizures might induce further damage to (the) brain, being the whole procedure of transportation at risk."
It then records how a German doctor who manages an air ambulance visited Alfie in the guise of a normal visitor, read a minority of his notes, believed the parents' description of his condition over that of the previous experts, and issued a "fit to fly" certificate. Having considered his evidence against that of other doctors, the judge said:
"I am at a loss to know quite why Dr Hubner fell so far below the standards expected of his profession. I am constrained to say that he has failed the parents, the Court but most importantly, Alfie."

In a further report commissioned by the parents, again with a non-UK doctor:
"The main underlying problem seems in my opinion that from the side of Alfie's parents that they do not understand and/or accept that: ... the majority of Alfie's reaction to external stimuli (i.e. touching, pain stimulation like pinching, etc., reaction to noise, parents voice etc.) is very likely not a purposeful reaction but very likely caused by seizures (as proven by repeat EEG monitoring)