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re: UPDATE 4/26 -Just In Case the OT Didn't Know - The UK is murdering a little baby right now
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:19 am to TH03
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:19 am to TH03
quote:
It's much different if the patient is a vegetable.
There comes a point in these cases where it's less about the care of the sick person and more about the family not wanting to let go.
I think that should be left up to the family and the doctors, not the government. Government shouldn't force doctors to treat and shouldn't tell families they can't seek other treatment.
very well put
0
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:19 am to Pilot Tiger
quote:
I think that the govt is making a tough decision but one that they came to very carefully and not without very careful consideration of the well being of the child. It's just an unfortunate situation
it should not be the government's decision to make
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:19 am to TH03
quote:
That's ridiculous and not what I said.
You said it's prolonging the inevitable. Inevitably, all humans die. Choose your words better when you want to be the contrarian.
quote:
You're arguing my point with my point.
That wasn't an argument for or against any point you're trying to make.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:20 am to Pilot Tiger
quote:
There's no one to condemn
Except for the individuals preventing the person dying from receiving further treatment.
The judge is making this decision in the "best interest of Alfie." The issue here is that the judge is making this decision and not Alfie's parents.
This is EXACTLY what can happen when the government is in charge of health care.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:22 am to LNCHBOX
quote:
You said it's prolonging the inevitable. Inevitably, all humans die. Choose your words better when you want to be the contrarian.
I'm talking about a child with almost complete brain degredation with no known cure or plan of action. It's absurd to liken that to the fact that everyone dies one day.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:22 am to Pettifogger
I feel like we're having a decent back and forth in this thread and then once we reach a climax and some common ground, more people come out of the woodwork and parrot the same points that have already been discussed
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:22 am to Pettifogger
quote:
It just prolongs the inevitable
We can prolong death of cancer for a year or more that eventually will be terminal. What's the threshold on how long treatment has to keep the patient alive? Is it cost or length that determines the threshold?
Again, we can argue the ethics of what the family should do, bit the government shouldn't be making the decision.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:23 am to theOG
quote:
The judge is making this decision in the "best interest of Alfie." The issue here is that the judge is making this decision and not Alfie's parents.
The judge isn't making the decision willy-nilly, the judge is making the decision in consultation with multiple experts.
Are the parents doing more harm than good to Alfie by pursuing further treatment that has been deemed futile by doctors in both the UK and Italy? Is it inhumane?
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:23 am to TH03
quote:
I'm talking about a child with almost complete brain degredation with no known cure or plan of action. It's absurd to liken that to the fact that everyone dies one day.
It's absurd that we even have to discuss this. If the parents can pay, they should be able to seek whatever treatment, regardless of its probability success. You're post that the Italian docs think it was delaying the inevitable is irrelevant.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:23 am to Fun Bunch
quote:This actually isnt true
The Parents want to try other avenues and have the means to pay for it.
The Italian doctors said they have no other avenues to try and save the child, they are just willing to keep him on life support longer
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:23 am to TH03
quote:
And my only request was that I'd like to read the facts and determine that for myself instead of reading the tears in the OP.
Then google it yourself dumbass.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:24 am to LNCHBOX
quote:
If the parents can pay
Are they paying anything?
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:24 am to GetCocky11
quote:
The judge isn't making the decision willy-nilly, the judge is making the decision in consultation with multiple experts.
This is a fundamental political philosophy debate where no one is going to change their mind.
quote:
Are the parents doing more harm than good to Alfie by pursuing further treatment that has been deemed futile by doctors in both the UK and Italy? Is it inhumane?
No
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:25 am to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
quote:
Are the parents doing more harm than good to Alfie by pursuing further treatment that has been deemed futile by doctors in both the UK and Italy? Is it inhumane?
quote:
No
I disagree.
It isn't even treatment that he would be receiving. It is more a form of life-support.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:25 am to TH03
quote:
I'm talking about a child with almost complete brain degredation with no known cure or plan of action. It's absurd to liken that to the fact that everyone dies one day.
also no diagnosis unless I'm mistaken
look, I'm not saying there is any likelihood whatsoever that this kid can be saved. But if it was my child, I want the right to take my child to people willing to service him and potentially gain a diagnosis and keep the really faint hope alive for a cure or plan of action.
I think it's unreal to me that 30 armed guards are preventing that from happening. Way too much overreach by governmental authorities into the right of the parent to search for care for the child.
I think you agree with that sentiment. It's where I get really upset about this whole deal.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:25 am to LNCHBOX
quote:
It's absurd that we even have to discuss this. If the parents can pay, they should be able to seek whatever treatment, regardless of its probability success. You're post that the Italian docs think it was delaying the inevitable is irrelevant
Dude read my posts again. I said this several times.
I said it's delaying the inevitable but that decision should be left to the parents and doctors.
And you call me a contrarian when you're literally arguing what I just said.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:26 am to GetCocky11
quote:
The judge isn't making the decision willy-nilly, the judge is making the decision in consultation with multiple experts.
Are the parents doing more harm than good to Alfie by pursuing further treatment that has been deemed futile by doctors in both the UK and Italy? Is it inhumane?
These are valid questions, and unless the latter can be very clearly and accurately answered in the affirmative, I think the consensus on this board is that the state should not be the one making that decision.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:27 am to Pettifogger
quote:
quote:
The judge isn't making the decision willy-nilly, the judge is making the decision in consultation with multiple experts.
Are the parents doing more harm than good to Alfie by pursuing further treatment that has been deemed futile by doctors in both the UK and Italy? Is it inhumane?
quote:
These are valid questions, and unless the latter can be very clearly and accurately answered in the affirmative, I think the consensus on this board is that the state should not be the one making that decision.
The state makes decisions on child-abuse all the time.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:28 am to GetCocky11
quote:
I disagree.
It isn't even treatment that he would be receiving. It is more a form of life-support.
well, if he is a vegetable, then it really does no harm other than financially to keep him on life support indefinitely, as he cannot feel anything. so the argument for letting him die to ease his "suffering" (how can a vegetative person suffer) is pointless
This post was edited on 4/25/18 at 11:29 am
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:29 am to GetCocky11
quote:
The state makes decisions on child-abuse all the time.
Pretty sure killing your child is a form of abuse.
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