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re: UPDATE 4/26 -Just In Case the OT Didn't Know - The UK is murdering a little baby right now
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:05 am to GetCocky11
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:05 am to GetCocky11
quote:
What about to the child?
did you watch the video?
0
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:05 am to DirtyMikeandtheBoys
quote:I'd like to think that the medical professionals that have cared for that child for 17 months are not trying to murder him
It really sounds like you have entirely too much faith in the integrity of the system/government...when it seems pretty obvious at this point they lack any integrity at the most basal level.
call me crazy, but if that's what you call "having too much faith in the system" so be it
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:05 am to Pettifogger
quote:Also agree.
So then it becomes whether or not the UK is intentionally murdering a child (they're not) instead of a legitimate discussion about rights of parents vs. control of the state.
It's a good example of why our modern discourse is so fricked and why people on the anti-authoritarian side of the argument often derail their own narrative.
Look how people in this thread using emotion and throwing out "murderer" "socialist pigs" etc etc has actually gotten them to the point of arguing with people who actually agree with them on the true issue at hand.....
This post was edited on 4/25/18 at 11:06 am
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:06 am to GetCocky11
You knocked up a slut you asked the OTfor advice about as I recall, didn't you? Are you a parent yet?
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:06 am to MSMHater
quote:
They weighed it, but it's still a numbers game to the British govt. Any extraordinary measures taken by the Italians would represent only a marginal chance at extended life, and still zero chance of a normal life. Ultimately, that's all utilization in an NHS style govt is based on. Cost-benefit. And the UK govt sees no benefit to provide more resources to this little guy.
Continuous care by the NHS since December 2016. That is pretty good benefit for the parents.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:07 am to GetCocky11
Child is dying. Parents are asking to move him to a sophisticated country where he'll receive highly-qualified medical care, and the providers have invited them to do so.
It would be much different if the parents wanted to fly him to Guatemala where some quack doctor resides.
It would be much different if the parents wanted to fly him to Guatemala where some quack doctor resides.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:07 am to Sao
quote:
You knocked up a slut you asked the OTfor advice about as I recall, didn't you? Are you a parent yet?
Uh, what? You have me confused with somebody else because I definitely did not do that.
Your deflection attempt was a huge swing and miss.
This post was edited on 4/25/18 at 11:08 am
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:08 am to Pilot Tiger
quote:
I haven't read one opinion from a medical professional claiming they can save the child's life
So what?
The UK is saying "We won't spend the money on this child anymore"
The parents have other means to pay for the child's care and treatment.
What is the problem here?
The UK is trying to protect their own system of medicine over the rights of the parents or the future of the child.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:08 am to GetCocky11
quote:
Continuous care by the NHS since December 2016. That is pretty good benefit for the parents.
Awesome, and Italy has decided they have done enough and can now just kindly and quietly step aside. No harm, no foul. Just get out of their own fricking way.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:08 am to GetCocky11
quote:
Continuous care by the NHS since December 2016. That is pretty good benefit for the parents.
Fair point. I would correct my last sentence to...
quote:
Ultimately, that's all utilization in an NHS style govt is based on. Cost-benefit. And the UK govt sees no benefit to provide more resources to this little guy at this point in his treatment.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:09 am to DirtyMikeandtheBoys
read this
that would be tough as shite for me if it was my baby. but not sure what you do in this situation.
quote:
For those too caught up in the politics to actually care about the childs condition, here is what the Italian doctors concluded as put in a UK paper----
Three experts from the Bambino Gesù hospital visited Alfie in Liverpool at the request of the parents, but they agreed with the doctors that further treatment would be “futile” in finding a cure. However, they also said they were willing to take the tot to Rome to undergo operations to help him breathe and receive food, which would keep him alive for an “undefined period”.
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that would be tough as shite for me if it was my baby. but not sure what you do in this situation.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:09 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
The UK is trying to protect their own system of medicine over the rights of the parents or the future of the child.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:09 am to Pettifogger
quote:
o then it becomes whether or not the UK is intentionally murdering a child (they're not) instead of a legitimate discussion about rights of parents vs. control of the state.
But in a way they are by preventing the parents from taking the child from the hospital. I ask again, other than reasons of pride, what is it to the NHS if the parents remove the child from the hospital and seek treatment elsewhere at no expense to the NHS?
This post was edited on 4/25/18 at 11:10 am
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:10 am to donRANDOMnumbers
quote:
that would be tough as shite for me if it was my baby. but not sure what you do in this situation.
yes it would be, but you as the child's parent would get to decide.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:10 am to donRANDOMnumbers
quote:
Three experts from the Bambino Gesù hospital visited Alfie in Liverpool at the request of the parents, but they agreed with the doctors that further treatment would be “futile” in finding a cure. However, they also said they were willing to take the tot to Rome to undergo operations to help him breathe and receive food, which would keep him alive for an “undefined period”.
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From reading that, it seems like moving him to Italy is not in the best interest of the child as hard as it is to say.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:10 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
The UK is trying to protect their own system of medicine over the rights of the parents or the future of the child.
There is validity in that.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:10 am to donRANDOMnumbers
Precisely why in life and death situations, let's leave those decisions to the child's foremost advocates and the ones that presumably love him the most.
I understand emotion can cloud judgment and there are probably examples all the time of people fighting the fight a little too long, but I just find it extremely dangerous to continue lowering the bar on the situation whereby the state can act as a substitute for a family's wishes.
I understand emotion can cloud judgment and there are probably examples all the time of people fighting the fight a little too long, but I just find it extremely dangerous to continue lowering the bar on the situation whereby the state can act as a substitute for a family's wishes.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:11 am to donRANDOMnumbers
Well that changes things if the Italian doctors admit they can't even fix anything.
It just prolongs the inevitable.
It just prolongs the inevitable.
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:11 am to donRANDOMnumbers
quote:Yeh, I think the parents should 100% have the right to go to Italy. The govt should not be able to keep them from doing so.
Three experts from the Bambino Gesù hospital visited Alfie in Liverpool at the request of the parents, but they agreed with the doctors that further treatment would be “futile” in finding a cure. However, they also said they were willing to take the tot to Rome to undergo operations to help him breathe and receive food, which would keep him alive for an “undefined period”.
But I dont neccessarily agree with that decision after reading this is the "treatment" in Italy
Posted on 4/25/18 at 11:11 am to Fun Bunch
quote:yes the UK is saying that 17 months on continuous care is enough and it's time to make him comfortable and let him pass.
The UK is saying "We won't spend the money on this child anymore"
quote:In my opinion the parents SHOULD have the right as they are acting in good faith
The parents have other means to pay for the child's care and treatment. What is the problem here?
quote:I think that the govt is making a tough decision but one that they came to very carefully and not without very careful consideration of the well being of the child. It's just an unfortunate situation
The UK is trying to protect their own system of medicine over the rights of the parents or the future of the child.
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