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re: Ukraine say U.S. tanks are ineffective and armor is useless

Posted on 5/29/24 at 11:37 am to
Posted by RaoulDuke504
Member since Aug 2023
3410 posts
Posted on 5/29/24 at 11:37 am to
quote:

Tanks have always, like everything else on the battlefield, been vulnerable to destruction. The first major use of tanks on a battlefield was at the Battle of Cambrai in Nov. 1917. The British used almost 500 tanks in this battle. Of that 500, 180 were lost even though most German soldiers had never seen a tank. By early 1918, the Germans were knocking out British tanks on a regular basis. Tanks have always been vulnerable to mines, artillery, and anti-tank missiles. Hell, in WWII, the Germans knocked out thousands of Allied tanks with panzerfausts. Tanks being vulnerable isn’t anything unique or new. That’s why they have to be used with infantry and cavalry with artillery backup. Cavalry screens and performs recon for the main force, identifying minefields, strongpoints, and enemy positions for the main force to attack. In the attack, tanks provide maneuver and firepower to the infantry while the infantry protects the tanks from anti-tank teams. And the artillery supports them all with fires on enemy positions and counter-battery fire on the enemy’s artillery. You also have mine tanks and combat engineers to deal with mines. This was true in 1945 and is just as true in 2024. But it takes the training and logistics to pull it off. Neither Russia nor Ukraine have either. Really the only thing that’s new in this war is drones. That will require development of new countermeasures. But that’s the nature of warfare. One side develops some new weapon and the other side develops a countermeasure.


From this assessment it sounds like Ukraine is fricked at this point in the war. With man power issues, a Frankenstein of equipment, and lack of strategy there’s no wonder weapon that can achieve this.
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
72136 posts
Posted on 5/29/24 at 11:38 am to
quote:

Tanks in general are obsolete. There is no amount of protection that can be given to a tank that will save it from a proper drone strike. These things are rolling 3 million dollar coffins begging for a 10,000 dollar drone to come and blow the turret sky high. The war in Ukraine will be won by drones, missiles and artillery. Not tanks, planes and infantry assaults.


If the fact tanks are vulnerable means they’re obsolete, then no tanks should have been built after November 1917.

Planes are vulnerable.
Artillery is vulnerable.
Infantry is vulnerable.
Hell, even missiles are vulnerable.

There is no weapons system that is invulnerable. Its war. Tanks are knocked out, airplanes are shot down, artillery is destroyed. There will be losses. To think there isn’t going to be losses and to suppose weapons systems are obsolete just because they’re not completely invulnerable is absurd.
Posted by upgrayedd
Lifting at Tobin's house
Member since Mar 2013
138096 posts
Posted on 5/29/24 at 11:39 am to
I'm so sick of these entitled fricks
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
72136 posts
Posted on 5/29/24 at 11:41 am to
quote:

From this assessment it sounds like Ukraine is fricked at this point in the war. With man power issues, a Frankenstein of equipment, and lack of strategy there’s no wonder weapon that can achieve this.


Their only hope is to build a defense in depth and hope to hold on long enough and inflict enough losses on the Russians to converges to come to a negotiated peace.
Posted by Obtuse1
Westside Bodymore Yo
Member since Sep 2016
30026 posts
Posted on 5/29/24 at 11:42 am to
What branch and what type of unit did you serve in? This is important in order to frame a response correctly.
Posted by MyRockstarComplex
The airport
Member since Nov 2009
4885 posts
Posted on 5/29/24 at 11:42 am to
I’m probably incorrect, but I thought we were “loaning” them money that they must spend specifically with our US defense contractors in which our politicians are major shareholders.

So “we” would be inclined to mass produce and value engineer to ensure profits are maximized. Hence shitty products.
Posted by TigersnJeeps
FL Panhandle
Member since Jan 2021
2642 posts
Posted on 5/29/24 at 11:42 am to
wait - MSM is to believed now?
Posted by Czechessential
Member since Apr 2024
1437 posts
Posted on 5/29/24 at 11:43 am to
quote:

suppose weapons systems are obsolete just because they’re not completely invulnerable is absurd


this, people watch too many action movies, while I’m pretty sure an F-16 could be taken out by a pineapple, in my war there was an F-117 shot down by a shoulder launched SAM, same would go for an F-22 or F-35, if you can see it you can kill it
Posted by texn
Pronouns: Y'All/Y'All's
Member since Nov 2019
4057 posts
Posted on 5/29/24 at 11:43 am to
Posted by BigPerm30
Member since Aug 2011
30946 posts
Posted on 5/29/24 at 11:43 am to
We started the war to let the military industrial complex unload its old inventory. If the US gets in a modern war, it’s not using any of that shite.

Having said that, our type of warfare these days is equivalent to the old battlefield standing in straight lines warfare.

China and Russia are using social media and liberal education institutions (colleges) to defeat the US in modern warfare.
Posted by Hateradedrink
Member since May 2023
3981 posts
Posted on 5/29/24 at 11:43 am to
How come you aren’t posting what Ukrainians have to say about Bradley’s?
Posted by Crawdaddy
Slidell. The jewel of Louisiana
Member since Sep 2006
19099 posts
Posted on 5/29/24 at 11:44 am to
quote:

Sounds like user error to me.


yep that is what they are hinting for now....US Soldiers on deck
Posted by IAmNERD
Member since May 2017
23720 posts
Posted on 5/29/24 at 11:44 am to
quote:

How come you aren’t posting what Ukrainians have to say about Bradley’s

They have been the real surprise star of the whole thing and we should send them 100 more.
Posted by OneSaintsFan
St. George, La
Member since Jan 2009
1834 posts
Posted on 5/29/24 at 11:46 am to
Or is this a case of we gave them old out of date stuff we are replacing with newer better stuff?

I’m legit asking
Posted by LegendInMyMind
Member since Apr 2019
71591 posts
Posted on 5/29/24 at 11:46 am to
quote:

I hate the U.S. because I fairly criticize the theft by defense contractors making useless junk. Let build more billion dollar jets I’m sure 2 that can’t stay in the air for more than an hour will be extremely useful.

That's not the only reason, Raul. You find any reason you can to shite on this country, some of them you even make up or distort. You love sucking the dick of authoritarian government.

You should strongly consider leaving.
Posted by scottydoesntknow
Member since Nov 2023
9996 posts
Posted on 5/29/24 at 11:47 am to
they havent even figured out theyve been duped. US government sends them billions...but most of the money just goes back to US political player's private accounts...then the crooked Ukrainian officials get their cut. All they actually get is our junk with a few trinkets that the remaining scraps of money will buy.
Posted by alphaandomega
Tuscaloosa-Here to Serve
Member since Aug 2012
16663 posts
Posted on 5/29/24 at 11:49 am to
quote:

Infantry by itself is vulnerable.
Armor by itself is vulnerable.
Cavalry by itself is vulnerable.
Artillery by itself is vulnerable.

But when you have infantry, armor, cavalry, and artillery working together in a cohesive team, you’re going to find success.

Neither the Russians nor Ukrainians have been able to figure out how to pull it off though.


Well obviously they need more of our tax dollars.
Posted by Auburn1968
NYC
Member since Mar 2019
25094 posts
Posted on 5/29/24 at 11:49 am to
quote:

They worked fine for me back in my day. Sounds like user error to me.


I bet you had air cover and didn't have killer drones everywhere.
Posted by Hateradedrink
Member since May 2023
3981 posts
Posted on 5/29/24 at 11:51 am to
They’re A1s with some electronics upgrades.
Posted by VolSquatch
First Coast
Member since Sep 2023
7621 posts
Posted on 5/29/24 at 11:52 am to
quote:

Their only hope is to build a defense in depth and hope to hold on long enough and inflict enough losses on the Russians to converges to come to a negotiated peace.



Don't say this in the main Ukraine thread. They are convinced Ukraine is winning, and Russia's entire economy and military will collapse in 9 months.
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