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Two previously unknown sermons by St. Augustine of Hippo found in Polish library...

Posted on 7/31/26 at 2:15 pm
Posted by RollTide1987
Baltimore, MD
Member since Nov 2009
71804 posts
Posted on 7/31/26 at 2:15 pm
St. Augustine of Hippo (354-430) was a bishop and theologian of the early church, widely regarded to be among the Church's foremost thinkers in biblical exegesis. These previously unknown sermons deal with the troubling passage from 1 Samuel where King Saul visits a medium in Endor just before his death in battle.

quote:

The most striking aspect of the new texts is a hypothesis previously unknown to the Augustinian tradition.

“The most notable element of the new sermons is the idea that Saul, after hearing Samuel’s prophecy, could have repented and been redeemed,” Tornau noted.

According to the researcher, this interpretation has no parallels in either the known works of the bishop of Hippo or in early Christian exegesis, where the figure of Saul is typically portrayed in a decidedly negative light.

In these sermons, St. Augustine seems to suggest that even a figure as controversial as Israel’s first king might have ultimately opened himself to divine grace.

“The idea may be an original invention of Augustine’s, or perhaps he had access — directly or indirectly — to Rabbinic Jewish exegesis, which is far more positive regarding Saul,” the specialist noted.

Be that as it may, Tornau said he believes this interpretation sheds light on a fundamental aspect of Augustinian thought.

“His intellectual independence and his willingness to consider that anyone, even those who seem most wicked, is capable of attaining salvation through the grace of God” is striking, Tornau commented.


LINK
Posted by CatfishJohn
Member since Jun 2020
22892 posts
Posted on 7/31/26 at 2:17 pm to
Bible board
Posted by Cockopotamus
Member since Jan 2013
16160 posts
Posted on 7/31/26 at 2:38 pm to
quote:

“The most notable element of the new sermons is the idea that Saul, after hearing Samuel’s prophecy, could have repented and been redeemed,” Tornau noted.

“His intellectual independence and his willingness to consider that anyone, even those who seem most wicked, is capable of attaining salvation through the grace of God” is striking, Tornau commented.


Per the heaven and hell thread, this concept is beyond the grasp of more than a few on the OT.
This post was edited on 7/31/26 at 2:49 pm
Posted by KiwiHead
Auckland, NZ
Member since Jul 2014
38906 posts
Posted on 7/31/26 at 3:11 pm to
I'm thinking the concept would be summarily rejected on the PT and Augustine denounced as not only a heretic, but a wimp as well.
Posted by RoyalWe
Louisiana
Member since Mar 2018
5465 posts
Posted on 7/31/26 at 3:29 pm to
The gift is given. You just have to accept it.
Posted by T1gerNate
Member since Feb 2020
4393 posts
Posted on 7/31/26 at 3:43 pm to
quote:

“His intellectual independence and his willingness to consider that anyone, even those who seem most wicked, is capable of attaining salvation through the grace of God” is striking, Tornau commented.


Tornau must not have the same bible that I have.
Posted by soccerfüt
Location: A Series of Tubes
Member since May 2013
76522 posts
Posted on 7/31/26 at 3:53 pm to
quote:

St. Augustine of Hippo
Doctor of Grace
Posted by Mid Iowa Tiger
Undisclosed Secure Location
Member since Feb 2008
25267 posts
Posted on 7/31/26 at 6:31 pm to
quote:

that anyone, even those who seem most wicked, is capable of attaining salvation through the grace of God” is striking, Tornau commented.


I don’t see why that is striking. God‘s grace is bottomless if someone were to truly repent from the most horrible lives at the moment of their death they’re saved.
Posted by YouKnowImRight
Parts Unknown
Member since Oct 2023
2988 posts
Posted on 7/31/26 at 9:14 pm to
Augustine introduced a lot of Gnostic garbage into Christian thought. He thought sin was passed on in literal semen.
Posted by TheWalrus
Land of the Hogs
Member since Dec 2012
48339 posts
Posted on 7/31/26 at 9:15 pm to
I don’t like hippos
Posted by RollTide1987
Baltimore, MD
Member since Nov 2009
71804 posts
Posted on 7/31/26 at 9:19 pm to
quote:

He thought sin was passed on in literal semen.


Yeah, this is what Christians call Original Sin. It's passed from parent to offspring like a venereal disease and is cured through the sacrament of Baptism.
Posted by OWLFAN86
Erotic Novelist
Member since Jun 2004
198430 posts
Posted on 7/31/26 at 9:19 pm to
quote:

I'm thinking the concept would be summarily rejected on the PT and Augustine denounced as not only a heretic, but a wimp as well.
Political experts and theologians, every one of them


According to them
Posted by OWLFAN86
Erotic Novelist
Member since Jun 2004
198430 posts
Posted on 7/31/26 at 9:22 pm to
I've shared the thought in a debate on here that God is not limited by time so we in our human understanding have no idea how much God can do in that last moment of life

Posted by stuckintexas
Austin & DFW
Member since Sep 2009
3555 posts
Posted on 7/31/26 at 11:20 pm to
quote:

I don’t see why that is striking. God‘s grace is bottomless if someone were to truly repent from the most horrible lives at the moment of their death they’re saved.

I've always seen King Saul as a complicated man that made tough decisions only to be cast aside and written off. We have no account of his, only those that opposed him. Who wouldn't come off as haughty and wrong if your life story was written by those who were your enemies.
Posted by biglego
San Francisco
Member since Nov 2007
85761 posts
Posted on 7/31/26 at 11:35 pm to
quote:

sin was passed on in literal semen.


That’s why bad girls are the freaks
Posted by OWLFAN86
Erotic Novelist
Member since Jun 2004
198430 posts
Posted on 7/31/26 at 11:40 pm to
Saul's pride and ego vs David's humble trust in God

Posted by stuckintexas
Austin & DFW
Member since Sep 2009
3555 posts
Posted on 8/2/26 at 12:41 am to
quote:

Saul's pride and ego vs David's humble trust in God

According to the men who wrote it down. We do not know Saul's mental, emotional, nor spiritual state. David wrote his memoirs. So did Samuel. David fought against Saul. Samuel gave specific orders "from God" and then was late to his own party. Where the hell was Samuel when Saul was making his supposed prideful, egotistical decisions? He was nowhere to be found. Nada. Zilch. Zero. Oh, he shows up right when Saul makes the choice that condemns him? Well, would you look at that? Perfect timing to make someone a villain.

And as for David. Infidelity. Murder. Bastard child. Illegal census leading to the deaths of tens of thousands. Yeah, the guy is a masterpiece showcase of humble trust in God. Entitled douche bag that got a slap on the wrist for more egregious sins than Saul got condemned for.
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