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re: Toll revenue would only pay 17% of the cost of a new Mississippi River Bridge

Posted on 2/5/19 at 2:41 pm to
Posted by Oilfieldbiology
Member since Nov 2016
42714 posts
Posted on 2/5/19 at 2:41 pm to
It could be. This is just yet another tactic to raises taxes on EBR and around the capital area. Because lord knows we have a revenue problem. Not a spending one though.
Posted by lsu13lsu
Member since Jan 2008
11841 posts
Posted on 2/5/19 at 2:42 pm to
The silver lining is TBR and Broome, et al are going to run everyone off from BR so traffic should start getting better and we won't need a new loop or bridge.
Posted by LSUBoo
Knoxville, TN
Member since Mar 2006
104448 posts
Posted on 2/5/19 at 2:43 pm to
quote:

From the article:

Cost: $1,000,000,000 (DAMN)
Number of vehicles a day: 150,000 (DAMN)
Toll: $3 for passenger vehicles / $8 for trucks (say $5 average) (that's expensive - may see significant traffic decrease which could impact the numbers below)

So if the traffic stayed constant:

Daily toll revenue: 150,000 x $5 = $750,000 A DAY (DAMN)

Days to make $1 billion = 1,333 days (3.65 years)


150,000 vehicles use the current 'new' bridge daily, that's not what they project to use a newer one.


And the St. Francisville bridge isn't quite apples to apples because it doesn't have to have the same clearance as anything downstream of the current 'new' bridge.
Posted by elposter
Member since Dec 2010
26751 posts
Posted on 2/5/19 at 2:45 pm to
quote:

It could be. This is just yet another tactic to raises taxes on EBR and around the capital area. Because lord knows we have a revenue problem. Not a spending one though.


Just seems people could look at the basic math and see that whoever is doing these estimates that only 17% of costs would be paid by tolls seems like they are full of shite. The "toll financing" on new roads like this customarily stretch out over several years and they are apparently factoring in like 1 year of toll revenue in these calculations for some reason.
Posted by OysterPoBoy
City of St. George
Member since Jul 2013
45503 posts
Posted on 2/5/19 at 2:48 pm to
Why can’t we just enforce a $100 fine for every 18 wheeler that gets in a wreck on the top of the current new bridge? We could have a billion in a few months.
Posted by elposter
Member since Dec 2010
26751 posts
Posted on 2/5/19 at 2:49 pm to
quote:

150,000 vehicles use the current 'new' bridge daily, that's not what they project to use a newer one.


Ah, I see. So I wonder what the estimates are for daily traffic on the new toll bridge? If it is even half of that you are still talking about $300k+ in revenue a day and a billion in 9-10 years.
Posted by Traveler
I'm not late-I'm early for tomorrow
Member since Sep 2003
26598 posts
Posted on 2/5/19 at 2:53 pm to
And every elected official in the State and their families & friends will have a free pass to cross.
Posted by Bayou_Tiger_225
Third Earth
Member since Mar 2016
13130 posts
Posted on 2/5/19 at 2:54 pm to
The cops at the bottom of the bridge in the picture made me lol.
Posted by Topwater Trout
Red Stick
Member since Oct 2010
70176 posts
Posted on 2/5/19 at 2:56 pm to
quote:

Toll revenue would pay for only 17 percent of a new bridge across the Mississippi River in Baton Rouge,


over a period of how long?

How was the St. Francisville bridge paid for?

quote:

What the state envisions is a six-lane structure with four-lane approaches on each side connecting La. 1 to La. 30.


so the dumbass state envisions widening 110/10 and then in a few years opening a bridge with more lanes causing another bottleneck entering BR? brilliant!
Posted by lsu13lsu
Member since Jan 2008
11841 posts
Posted on 2/5/19 at 2:56 pm to
quote:

Ah, I see. So I wonder what the estimates are for daily traffic on the new toll bridge? If it is even half of that you are still talking about $300k+ in revenue a day and a billion in 9-10 years.


Will have to cover maintenance and interest on bonds. Interest is the big one.
Posted by LSUBoo
Knoxville, TN
Member since Mar 2006
104448 posts
Posted on 2/5/19 at 2:57 pm to
Yeah, designing it with a bottleneck... brilliant!
Posted by tigerinthebueche
Member since Oct 2010
38223 posts
Posted on 2/5/19 at 2:58 pm to
quote:

There is some St. francisville baw who’s about to come in here and start condescendingly telling us we don’t know traffic design and that bridge is serving its purpose and that it’s not a waste of money.

I distinctly remember him and would live for him to come here and again explain why a 10’s of millions of dollars bridge was needed for 7.34 vehicles per day



well since you asked. Let me link you AGAIN to the article detailing the origin and reason behind the AB:

LINK


since you're reading comprehension sucks, I'll post a few quotes for you:

quote:

The Audubon Bridge’s construction was part of the state’s Transportation Infrastructure Model for Economic Development Program, which was established by Act 16 of the 1989 legislative session. The program is funded with a dedicated 4-cents-per-gallon, voter-approved gas tax.



quote:

DOTD spokesman Rodney Mallett said the projection models for the Audubon Bridge were based on the number of people who used the old St. Francisville-New Roads ferry system, a diversion of a percentage of travelers from the U.S. 190 bridge and Natchez bridges and a redistribution of the current traffic patterns at the time with annual increases in traffic volume.




quote:

Mallett said the TIMED Program included 16 specific projects aimed at spurring economic development in Louisiana, not traffic congestion relief.




now read all that very slowly and think about what it says. The AB was never supposed to be an alternate route to the MRB. It was never conceived nor designed with the MRB traffic flow/volume in mind. So to that point, it serves its intended purpose. Your beef aint with that bridge or its construction.
Your beef should be with EBR and WBR/Ibberville officials whose myopic view can't allow them to plan further out then their weekend. They are the reason you sit in traffic and have only one route over the River.
Posted by Smalls
Southern California
Member since Jul 2009
10306 posts
Posted on 2/5/19 at 3:04 pm to
Where is this new-new bridge supposed to be located?
Posted by Boudreaux35
BR
Member since Sep 2007
22281 posts
Posted on 2/5/19 at 3:09 pm to
quote:

So I wonder what the estimates are for daily traffic on the new toll bridge? If it is even half of that you are still talking about $300k+ in revenue a day


The projections I've seen show only about 30-35% of the traffic taking the new tolled route. I would bet that this investment would need to look at around a 25 year term.

This "private investment" idea they keep throwing around is nothing new. It's called a Public Private Partnership. The method has been around for a long time. I don't understand why the media and other info outlets won't use the right term.

Like someone else said, you have to factor in interest, operations and maintenance costs into the overall investment also. Plus, the investor is not doing this for fun. He is in it for a profit also.

Posted by tonydtigr
Beautiful Downtown Glenn Springs,Tx
Member since Nov 2011
6843 posts
Posted on 2/5/19 at 3:10 pm to
quote:

quote:
150,000 vehicles use the current 'new' bridge daily, that's not what they project to use a newer one.


Ah, I see. So I wonder what the estimates are for daily traffic on the new toll bridge? If it is even half of that you are still talking about $300k+ in revenue a day and a billion in 9-10 years.




By the time this bridge gets built, you can bet the numbers for traffic will be significantly higher. Has that been factored into their projections?
Posted by Tigerbythetale
Las Vegas
Member since Aug 2014
1458 posts
Posted on 2/5/19 at 3:13 pm to
quote:

how was the St Francisville bridge paid for


Around 1985 La residents approved a 4 cent per gallon gasoline tax for a fund named TIMEd which was a fund used to address a list of big infrastructure improvements

Like most state bonded construction projects once bonds were sold the cost increases started and finally took a bridge construction originally projected at $50M to a finished project that cost $500M .

Once taxpayer backed bonds are sold, cost overruns must be approved because taxpayer bonded project can not be allowed to fail !
Posted by LSUFanHouston
NOLA
Member since Jul 2009
41600 posts
Posted on 2/5/19 at 3:18 pm to
Over a 20 year time horizon, an average toll of $5 per vehicle, and assuming half of the current "new" bridge usage, I don't see any reason why the toll revenue, over 20 years, would not be enough to pay off the bonds needed to build it.

Yes, you have interest costs, and the cost of the toll-taking equipment, and the cost of enforcement. Still though.

17% makes no sense whatsoever.

LA DOTD needs to stop being cheap and go hire 1-2 engineers from HCTRA and 1-2 engineers from NTTA and put them to work.
Posted by Motorboat
At the camp
Member since Oct 2007
24307 posts
Posted on 2/5/19 at 3:20 pm to
I do not understand why this isn't a federal issue since I 10 is an interstate highway. The amount of commerce that travels through is astounding.
Posted by BugAC
St. George
Member since Oct 2007
58274 posts
Posted on 2/5/19 at 3:22 pm to
quote:

Not sure why they are saying only 17 percent would be paid by tolls. Sure there are additional expenses and time value of money to consider but seems like over 5-10 years a majority of the cost could be recovered in tolls.



Some of that toll money goes to maintenance costs. Other costs go to whoever runs the toll program. Often, it's a 3rd party, not the state.
Posted by tigerinthebueche
Member since Oct 2010
38223 posts
Posted on 2/5/19 at 3:24 pm to
quote:

Where is this new-new bridge supposed to be located?


I don't think a location has been agreed upon yet. And that's one of the major hurtles the project will face. Same with a loop. Seems none of the politicians in the 4 parish area can agree on where to put another route over the MR. I'm guessing they haven't figured out how to personally gain from it, so they wont agree to it.

I'm sure that's why the state guy is saying this toll bridge won't work. someone is not getting a cut, so they are fighting it until they do.
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