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re: Supreme Court ponders the right to pray on the 50-yard line
Posted on 4/25/22 at 9:51 pm to SixthAndBarone
Posted on 4/25/22 at 9:51 pm to SixthAndBarone
quote:
Nobody has the right to pray but you do have the right of the government not to stop you from praying.
0
Posted on 4/25/22 at 9:55 pm to PhillyTiger90
quote:
If he was taking a knee praying to the almighty BLM the school district would throw him a parade
And he'd get a Nike contract...
Posted on 4/25/22 at 9:56 pm to The Spleen
quote:Now let's talk about teachers forcing kids to participate in gay pride parades and the like.
Not so much pressure from the organizers but more peer and societal pressure.
Posted on 4/25/22 at 9:57 pm to reddy tiger
quote:
All religions are cults and religious belief is a widely accepted form of mental illness.
well that's retarded. A shite load of us agnogs and atheists have mental illnesses.
Posted on 4/25/22 at 9:58 pm to Mike da Tigah
If he was Muslim and chose the field to pray to allah, it would be ok
Posted on 4/25/22 at 10:00 pm to reddy tiger
quote:
Probably. But self-delusion isn’t one of them.
You need to think about these two statements a little more.
Posted on 4/25/22 at 10:10 pm to SixthAndBarone
quote:
Nobody has the right to pray
What? Everybody has the right to pray.
Posted on 4/25/22 at 10:45 pm to Tchefuncte Tiger
The Constitution and the Bill of Rights tell the government what it may not do.
The Left loves to use the so called Establishment Clause like a club, but they forget what comes after the comma. They are FORBIDDEN to interfere as you worship as you please.There is ample evidence of their intent, just look at The Ten Commandments at the Court chambers and we know the Fathers prayed during deliberations.
The Left loves to use the so called Establishment Clause like a club, but they forget what comes after the comma. They are FORBIDDEN to interfere as you worship as you please.There is ample evidence of their intent, just look at The Ten Commandments at the Court chambers and we know the Fathers prayed during deliberations.
This post was edited on 4/25/22 at 10:46 pm
Posted on 4/25/22 at 10:55 pm to The Spleen
quote:
I have felt pressure to participate in prayer that I wasn’t comfortable doing more times than I can count.
That's because you're a pussy that is worried about what others think about you.
I'm agnostic at best and atheist at worst and DGAF about this dude praying. Every time I go to an event and the chaplain puts on a prayer, I just listen and typically enjoy what the message intends.
Posted on 4/26/22 at 12:09 am to Mike da Tigah
God can’t hear your prayer unless you do it out loud in front of a crowd, like the front row of church or the 50 yard line. It’s in the Bible. Matthew 6:5-6. Oh, wait, got that wrong. It actually says don’t do “look at me pray” stuff like that. Keep it in the prayer closet.
Posted on 4/26/22 at 12:17 am to Mike da Tigah
quote:
the culture wars Monday in a case that involves a football coach's asserted right to kneel and pray on the 50-yard line at the conclusion of a public school football game. Joseph Kennedy, a coach for the Bremerton, Wash., High School varsity and JV football teams began praying with his players before and after games in 2008. At the end of a game, he would take a knee and say a prayer with his players at midfield.
Uh…does everyone realize here that the issue is the coach is an agent of “the government”?
People try to make this into something different than what it is. The standard is that it must be clear that a government employee is sharing a religious view as an individual, and not as an agent of the government making an endorsement of such.
Posted on 4/26/22 at 2:10 am to SixthAndBarone
quote:whuut? much of the colonists who founded this nation came here just for that right.
Nobody has the right to pray
Posted on 4/26/22 at 2:14 am to lsusa
quote:
People try to make this into something different than what it is. The standard is that it must be clear that a government employee is sharing a religious view as an individual, and not as an agent of the government making an endorsement of such.
That standard is pretty clear. He’s leading a prayer. No one is obligated to participate. They even have members of the opposing team do it. This is fairly common and done all over the south.
If the school puts out all that all team members must participate, that’s something completely different. But that’s not the case here.
Posted on 4/26/22 at 4:45 am to reddy tiger
quote:
All religions are cults and religious belief is a widely accepted form of mental illness.
This country was born out of the concept of being able to freely practice your version of religion (Mainly Judeo-Christian) without government interference. Unfortunately, as those beliefs faded in this country, we have experienced a deterioration in morality. Abortion, fatherless homes, and a plethora of other societal issues stemming from the lack of religious beliefs have decayed this great nation. The simple concept of eternal judgement based on the life you live is a good thing for a society, it inherently reduces selfish behavior and encourages helping one’s fellow man.
Posted on 4/26/22 at 4:51 am to lsusa
quote:
Uh…does everyone realize here that the issue is the coach is an agent of “the government”?
People try to make this into something different than what it is. The standard is that it must be clear that a government employee is sharing a religious view as an individual, and not as an agent of the government making an endorsement of such.
This is the first of the two crux issues in the case: government speech as defined in Garcetti v. Ceballos. It would appear on first blush the coach's actions are "government speech" and prohibited by Garcetti.
The court will deal with this one of three ways:
1. they will find that Garcetti fits and his actions are indeed prohibited
2. they will find that Kennedy's actions should be viewed as an exception to Garcetti and they will carve out and illuminate the exception
3. they will determine Garcetti is bad law and the court's interpretation of the Constitution was incorrect in Garcetti. IMO this is the least likely because it has the broadest implications, particularly in the area of stare decisis. Add to this Alito, Roberts, and Thomas were in the majority in the Garcetti ruling as was Scalia who had a large impact on shaping several of the newer member's ideologies.
If they find in favor of Kennedy on the government speech issue then they have to deal with the Pickering v. Board of Education issues.
As an interesting aside, maybe only to attorneys, Kennedy's lawyer is Paul Clement (Kirkland Ellis). This is one of the small handful of attorneys who if he is on the other side of oral arguments I am not sleeping well. He is the quiet 800-pound Gorilla of SCOTUS orals. The guy practically has a bedroom at One First Street NE. He has more face time with the justices than even any of the OSG attorneys.
This post was edited on 4/26/22 at 6:18 am
Posted on 4/26/22 at 5:16 am to elprez00
quote:
That standard is pretty clear. He’s leading a prayer. No one is obligated to participate. They even have members of the opposing team do it. This is fairly common and done all over the south. If the school puts out all that all team members must participate, that’s something completely different. But that’s not the case here.
Again, is he leading it as the “coach”?
Does it immediately flow from the post game speech like “good block jimmy, nice catch Joe, game film tomorrow and practice Monday…now let’s pray”?
Fwiw, on the school affiliated teams that I’ve been a part of it was always lead by the players.
Posted on 4/26/22 at 6:29 am to cssamerican
quote:
Abortion, fatherless homes, and a plethora of other societal issues stemming from the lack of religious beliefs have decayed this great nation.
Abortion rates have been steadily decreasing the last few decades, both in states with tighter restrictions and states with easier access.
This post was edited on 4/26/22 at 6:30 am
Posted on 4/26/22 at 6:39 am to lsusa
A coach shouldn’t lead prayers of any kind at a public school. If he wants to do that so badly, go to a private school. If he wants to pray himself, just do it in a quiet or inconspicuous way that doesn’t draw attention - which is the way all people should tend to personal matters at work.
Posted on 4/26/22 at 6:40 am to lsusa
quote:
Uh…does everyone realize here that the issue is the coach is an agent of “the government”?
Correct.
This coach is probably harmless and his intentions are pure but that’s not really the heart of the issue.
Posted on 4/26/22 at 6:42 am to Mike da Tigah
They’re really trying to take away our religion
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